Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

I can see what your saying from your point of view, although I don't agree with it (no hard feelings, right?). Thanks for clarifying, though. smile

Also, what do you believe to be the way that the universe came to be?

"Whoever is a highly evolved, super-genius raise your hand."  *raises hand*   "Oh."     
-----[color=#FF0000]Rodney McKay[/color]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

Daenna wrote:

And no, you dont just put together proteins to make life. A protein on its own is not life, it's just... a protein and when in natural environement the adequate recipe for living cells is applicated (water, proteins, etc, and energy - heat? lightning?) you might get some primitive form of bacteria. This happens why? because there isn't a spot on Earth where there isnt a physical trace of biological remains.

I don't think you can bring something back to life...bacteria or whatever...using any means...(lightning?!)     If we are talking about the first life form though...then there wouldn't be the leftovers or traces of once living ones...i think i get the jist of what you're saying...i hope i'm not too confusing....oh whatever. smile wink

                                                                {MW} MS9

[b]{MW}-[color=red]"Death and Destruction to Our Enemies"[/color][/b] 
[i] "I love that crunchy sound they make when they die."  ―RC-1207 (Sev), killing Geonosian [/i]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

Actually bacteria can survive for thousands of years in cold climates until their enviorment becomes suitable for them again. And what Daenna means is, if you look at ANY place  on Earth, any hostile place you can think of, theres one trace or another of life.

Half Dragon, half human, 100% Fett!

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

that makes sense...because after awhile creatures die....and eventually come to make up the dirt we have now...common sense, but how does this apply to what she was saying?  I'm still a little confused... smile

                                                     {MW} MS9

[b]{MW}-[color=red]"Death and Destruction to Our Enemies"[/color][/b] 
[i] "I love that crunchy sound they make when they die."  ―RC-1207 (Sev), killing Geonosian [/i]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

CeciliaCrimsondragonFett wrote:

And why DO people need to belive in something anyways? Won't you be just as happy if you didn't? Religion has only showed me one thing and thats suffering. Seriously, we'd get along a LOT better without it.

That's not the right way to put it, you'll drag mob aggro and will get pwnd in a matter of minuts tongue

Fear is what makes people choose religion and closed-mindness over doubt and open-mindness. It makes them feel safe and confident. The Bible provides easy answers to most questions in life and that suits them just fine. I know people who believe in God but who are still very open-minded... But what I don't like is to see people who lock themselves in the religious dogmas of the Bible, and any twist of their truth could make their world collapse.

You have no idea how this thread has influenced my judgement of most of you people wink

[url=http://daennika.deviantart.com]Fan art[/url]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

Okay, hold up.  Believing that the Bible is perfect does not mean that I am close-minded.  To the contrary, my college professors and fellow students who have told me, "You can't possibly believe that the Bible is perfect!" are the close-minded ones.  I am still open to other interpretations of what it says, or open to the idea that such and such a verse may be poorly translated or fragmented in our English versions.  And I do not have any qualms against those who believe it is not perfect.  I don't think God really cares.  Personally, I have no fear of the Bible being proven wrong and my world collapsing, because it is the only thing in my life where I have the confidence and the arrogance to say, "Yes, I am right about this."

On a side note, I grew up as an evolutionist, and my family has never been regular church goers.  I have been a creationist for about 18 months or so.  Changing your mind after seeing the evidence cannot possibly make a person close-minded.

Daenna, if I were choosing my belief system based upon fear, then I would certainly be an evolutionist, since I was publically humiliated time and time again in school this semester without doing anything to deserve it.  All I did was speak up when they started attacking religion, and for that my grade has suffered.  How is that a reaction based in fear?

Cecilia, in reply to your statement, one has only to remember the great philanthropists like Mother Theresa to see that religion does not "only cause suffering."  Perhaps religion without salvation makes people unhappy because they don't understand the rules they are following, but those who are saved find joy in doing God's work.  But I'm getting off topic.  This thread is supposed to be about evolution, not about whether or not believing in Biblical canonity makes you a close-minded fool.

The Gunslinger is doing a really good job of explaining natural selection, but I'm going to help by providing the Zoo Books explanation that I grew up with.  So, there are two short legged horses.  Somehow when they have a baby, it mutates and has long legs.  When the saber-tooth tigers chase all the horses, the ugly duckling horse always gets away, while the normal horses are more likely to die.  The ones that live pass on their genes, and so the ugly duckling fathers more long-legged horses.  The same cycle happens over and over again, and each generation there are more and more long-legged horses in the gene pool.  Eventually the short-legged horses completely cease to exist.  As you can see, natural selection does not act upon the individual or the entire species, but upon a single population, which is a group of one species that lives in a certain place (within breeding distance).  A few hundred miles away, all the horses may still have short legs, and thus, we stupid humans with our categorizing systems might choose to call it a different species.  But like race and skin tone, species are a continuum and oftentimes it is difficult to tell where one ends and another one begins, since they are all human-defined categories.

Anyway, I love everyone.  Don't judge.

Estuans interius ira vehementi SEPHIROTH!
BFFC Moderator

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

BFFC Chrys wrote:

Okay, hold up.  Believing that the Bible is perfect does not mean that I am close-minded.  To the contrary, my college professors and fellow students who have told me, "You can't possibly believe that the Bible is perfect!" are the close-minded ones.  I am still open to other interpretations of what it says, or open to the idea that such and such a verse may be poorly translated or fragmented in our English versions.  And I do not have any qualms against those who believe it is not perfect.  I don't think God really cares.  Personally, I have no fear of the Bible being proven wrong and my world collapsing, because it is the only thing in my life where I have the confidence and the arrogance to say, "Yes, I am right about this."

Like I said: religion gives you self-confidence in a way that you take what's said in the Bible like your own opinion. Which is not, it was created by others a long time ago. I wasn't saying that it has flaws, it's people who mostly read it the wrong way. That's why most religions are dangerous because they're based on obscure writings that can be interpretated a thousand different ways.

On a side note, I grew up as an evolutionist, and my family has never been regular church goers.  I have been a creationist for about 18 months or so.  Changing your mind after seeing the evidence cannot possibly make a person close-minded.

You can switch from a side to another and still think that the current truth you know is the only one. You're being exclusive, not open-minded.

Daenna, if I were choosing my belief system based upon fear, then I would certainly be an evolutionist, since I was publically humiliated time and time again in school this semester without doing anything to deserve it.  All I did was speak up when they started attacking religion, and for that my grade has suffered.  How is that a reaction based in fear?

You fear to be alone in your situation, that's why you provoke people into "hating" you instead of ignoring you. That reaction is typical to people who have just got into a new lifestyle or such, they want to affirm their new spiritual status by provoking a strong reaction from others. Perhaps now that people know your position on this you feel more confident in yourself? Choosing religion is a daring move for any aware adult person.

I respect people's spiritual choices as long as it stays an individual perpective for them... and not an opportunity to set themselves above the others on the intellectual level.

[url=http://daennika.deviantart.com]Fan art[/url]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

If evolution is true, where are all the "transitory" fossils?

"Whoever is a highly evolved, super-genius raise your hand."  *raises hand*   "Oh."     
-----[color=#FF0000]Rodney McKay[/color]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

RC-3222 wrote:

If evolution is true, where are all the "transitory" fossils?

Well I just did a Google search and came up with the appropriate article:

"Fossil find fills evolution gap" Article >
http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1066631509285_2003/10/23/nat_fossil2310.jpg



Seems like most of the questioning and lying accusations here are based on lack of knowledge.

[url=http://daennika.deviantart.com]Fan art[/url]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

But most of Evolution is just speculation, right? Scientists say that the Earth is billions of years old. How do they know that? They weren't there when the Earth was created. Also, dealing with the fossil above, why do they think that it is a transitory fossil? It could have been a species that died out after the Flood, like the dinosaurs.

And also about transitory fossils... I didn't specify what I wanted to know, so I'm sorry about that. I'll specify smile. Why aren't there tons of transitory fossils, since evolutionists think we came from them? There are millions of people on the Earth, so it would make sense that we would have found a few of them by now. Also, why aren't there any "half-evolved" creatures running around?

"Whoever is a highly evolved, super-genius raise your hand."  *raises hand*   "Oh."     
-----[color=#FF0000]Rodney McKay[/color]

61 (edited by Daenna Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:41 am)

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

RC-3222 wrote:

But most of Evolution is just speculation, right? Scientists say that the Earth is billions of years old. How do they know that? They weren't there when the Earth was created. Also, dealing with the fossil above, why do they think that it is a transitory fossil? It could have been a species that died out after the Flood, like the dinosaurs.

And also about transitory fossils... I didn't specify what I wanted to know, so I'm sorry about that. I'll specify smile. Why aren't there tons of transitory fossils, since evolutionists think we came from them? There are millions of people on the Earth, so it would make sense that we would have found a few of them by now. Also, why aren't there any "half-evolved" creatures running around?

You should really informed yourself from more official sources (the library? internet?), and study biology a bit more before saying it's all "speculations". OF COURSE nobody was there to witness the birth of our planet. Maybe if you'd pay more attention in class you would know? I dont know which grade you're in so don't take any offense. But all of the questions you asked have answers.... no scientist would dare claim anything before having gathered all the necessary evidence. If science was as amateurish as you think it is, we wouldn't be able to send people on the moon or cure cancer.

I'm really, really tempted to stop posting cause I get the feeling that people here are only half-interested in the answers they request sad

[url=http://daennika.deviantart.com]Fan art[/url]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

ARC Fett wrote:

NO dont stop posting!, wait to you mean in the thread or the entire BFFC?

I meant in this thread. What, do you think I am over-reacting to the point of cutting off BFFC for good? tongue

[url=http://daennika.deviantart.com]Fan art[/url]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

I honestly meant no offense, Daenna. smile

"Whoever is a highly evolved, super-genius raise your hand."  *raises hand*   "Oh."     
-----[color=#FF0000]Rodney McKay[/color]

64 (edited by TheGunslinger Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:53 pm)

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

RC-3222 wrote:

I can see what your saying from your point of view, although I don't agree with it (no hard feelings, right?). Thanks for clarifying, though. smile

Also, what do you believe to be the way that the universe came to be?

None at all smile

Personally, as far as the creation of the universe goes, (I know this is off-topic, so please no one turn the conversation this way. I just hate not answering when someone asks me a question) I don't know what to think. The question is just...impossible to answer, by nature. The Big Bang proof may have some semlance of scientific evidence behind it (red shift, etc), but not enough to be sure. So I don't worry about it. God created it. Whether it was via Big Bang or a literal "let there be light", doesn't really matter to me. I choose to not take sides when there isn't enough clear evidence smile

RC-3222 wrote:

Also, why aren't there any "half-evolved" creatures running around?
And as another quick answer: there is no such thing as fully evolved. Evolution is becoming better adapted to one's environment, one's situation or niche. As that environment is always changing, so are the factors that influence evolution.

What do you consider "half-evolved"? Evolution isn't a process that can be completed, so it can't be partially done. It's a perpetual influence that makes a species better suited to its environment and lifestyle.

There's a famous moth example they always use in biology classes. There's a species of moth that survives by blending into the bark of trees. Those looking most like tree bark survive best, so they could be considered the "best" evolved ones. However, factories start releasing smoke that darkens the trees' hues. Now all the perfectly-matching ones stick out like a sore thumb and get eaten, and the darker ones, the ones less likely to survive before, become the best suited to survive. Evolution in all relative to the environment and lifestyle of the species.

GPI: Fondly regard crustacean

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

Psst, I used the moth example on the last page =P

People know the Earths age because they can check the radiation the rock gives off. The older the rock, the less the radiation. Alls the scientists have to do is test all the rock, and determine from the oldest how old the Earth is. Its a technique thats been around for a long time.

Half Dragon, half human, 100% Fett!

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

CeciliaCrimsondragonFett wrote:

Psst, I used the moth example on the last page =P

Hehe...sorry about that. Missed that bit. Lots of info back there.

GPI: Fondly regard crustacean

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

Okay, half-evolved meaning, when a creature is evolving from one creature to another... That's as well as I can place it into words, so sorry!

Oh, and Tanks for putting up with me!

"Whoever is a highly evolved, super-genius raise your hand."  *raises hand*   "Oh."     
-----[color=#FF0000]Rodney McKay[/color]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

Hey everyone...i'm really glad we have both sides on here. It makes it a good discussion topic.

I still think one of the best proofs of creation instead of evolution is irreducible compexity. I've just finished up with a worldview class that really helped me better understand and strengthened my beliefs. I really enjoyed going through different icons of evolution, and seeing what they believe while seeing what i believe about it at the same time.

Isn't great to just roll down your window and smell the fresh air and see all of God's beautiful creation!!! It always gets me soo excited, just rolling down the window in my truck and thinking how lucky I am to be alive today. We all think that at one time or another, evolutionists and creationists alike.

Belief in Creation and God gives me a great pupose in life. I ask those who have grown up with evolution....what is your purpose in life? Why do you continue to live and breath...when you die you lose it all, why look to gain more?

                                                        {MW} MS9

[b]{MW}-[color=red]"Death and Destruction to Our Enemies"[/color][/b] 
[i] "I love that crunchy sound they make when they die."  ―RC-1207 (Sev), killing Geonosian [/i]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

MandalorianSpy9 wrote:

I ask those who have grown up with evolution....what is your purpose in life?

To become a better person with everything new I achieve, to be honest wink

I'm only 23 and I already feel pretty satisfied with how far I've come, and I still feel like there is so much more I can experience... Travelling helps, adapting to different cultures, speaking the languages, etc. Next step for me is to join the army and learn how to fight, to risk my life to save others, and all that type of "extreme" things that no one has ever lived in my family or friends. Doesn't matter if I end up with a carreer or anything, I'd be in it for the XP tongue

[url=http://daennika.deviantart.com]Fan art[/url]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

yes,    but what will you have done that really counts...we all die some day...and everything that you've done would have been a waste right?   who is going to remember you 100 years from now?   i know that nobody will know who i was....

                                                                            {MW} MS9

[b]{MW}-[color=red]"Death and Destruction to Our Enemies"[/color][/b] 
[i] "I love that crunchy sound they make when they die."  ―RC-1207 (Sev), killing Geonosian [/i]

71 (edited by Daenna Tuesday, May 23, 2006 3:03 pm)

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

MandalorianSpy9 wrote:

yes,    but what will you have done that really counts...we all die some day...and everything that you've done would have been a waste right?   who is going to remember you 100 years from now?   i know that nobody will know who i was....

Why does that have to do with anything? Why are you scared that nobody will remember you in 100 years? hmm

When I die, I'll deal with that when it actually happens, ya know wink I'm not gonna waste my lifetime shitting my pants because of what-if's.. And life is not about climbing the Everest (it's been done now.... a LOT of times) or making a big discovery. If you strive to do only HUGE things you're gonna miss out on the more important, like taking care of your loved ones... carpe diem wink

[url=http://daennika.deviantart.com]Fan art[/url]

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

Daenna wrote:
MandalorianSpy9 wrote:

yes,    but what will you have done that really counts...we all die some day...and everything that you've done would have been a waste right?   who is going to remember you 100 years from now?   i know that nobody will know who i was....

Why does that have to do with anything? Why are you scared that nobody will remember you in 100 years? hmm

When I die, I'll deal with that when it actually happens, ya know wink I'm not gonna waste my lifetime shitting my pants because of what-if's.. And life is not about climbing the Everest (it's been done now.... a LOT of times) or making a big discovery. If you strive to do only HUGE things you're gonna miss out on the more important, like taking care of your loved ones... carpe diem wink

I agree. Enjoy life to its fullest.

{MW}--[color=#FF0000]"Death and destruction to our enemies!"[/color]
"I wonder what the weather is like on Kamino right now?" Delta 62, Scorch.

Re: Is evolution real? Is evolution true?

MandalorianSpy9 wrote:

Hey everyone...i'm really glad we have both sides on here. It makes it a good discussion topic.

I still think one of the best proofs of creation instead of evolution is irreducible compexity. I've just finished up with a worldview class that really helped me better understand and strengthened my beliefs. I really enjoyed going through different icons of evolution, and seeing what they believe while seeing what i believe about it at the same time.

Isn't great to just roll down your window and smell the fresh air and see all of God's beautiful creation!!! It always gets me soo excited, just rolling down the window in my truck and thinking how lucky I am to be alive today. We all think that at one time or another, evolutionists and creationists alike.

Belief in Creation and God gives me a great pupose in life. I ask those who have grown up with evolution....what is your purpose in life? Why do you continue to live and breath...when you die you lose it all, why look to gain more?

                                                        {MW} MS9

Well SAID MandoSpy!!

"Whoever is a highly evolved, super-genius raise your hand."  *raises hand*   "Oh."     
-----[color=#FF0000]Rodney McKay[/color]