Topic: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Who do you think was a better Joker. This means to disrespect for Ledger and its just a comparison to see who you think was the better Joker.

They are very diferent kinds of Jokers, Nicholsen is more funny wheras Ledgers Joker is more of a cycopath.

I haven't seen Dark Knight yet but i have seen Batman 1989 and i think i will like Ledgers Joker better in the end

"My luck ranges from barely tolerable to cataclysmic"

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Ledger's. The Joker comes across as a disturbing. His performance was wonderfull

[i]The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed[/i]
[url=http://lfgcomic.com/page/1]Interrogations are hard...[/url]

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

I thought this would come up... I really don't know. They're both very iconic Jokers and I think they both play different Jokers. Nocholsen leans more towards the quirky, funny side while keeping his insanity while Ledger leans more to the insane side while maintaining a comedic feel as well. Which works out because the darker theme of the new Batman movies needed a darker Joker, while the more comic book-like, earlier films with Keaton worked better with the funnier Joker.

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Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

you can't really compare Nicholson and Ledger. different directors, different decades, different views, different styles, it just can't be done.

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Bye the Way Val can you please empty your inbox, i must PM

"My luck ranges from barely tolerable to cataclysmic"

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Valthonin wrote:

I thought this would come up... I really don't know. They're both very iconic Jokers and I think they both play different Jokers. Nocholsen leans more towards the quirky, funny side while keeping his insanity while Ledger leans more to the insane side while maintaining a comedic feel as well. Which works out because the darker theme of the new Batman movies needed a darker Joker, while the more comic book-like, earlier films with Keaton worked better with the funnier Joker.

I am 100% with Val.  They both represented different aspects of the Joker.  Nicholson was more of the BANG out of the end of the gun Joker.  And Ledger pushed the insanity to an extreme much like when Joker made a comeback to be Batman's major villain in the 70's and during the entire killing Joke thing.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

revan07 wrote:

Bye the Way Val can you please empty your inbox, i must PM

I cleared some space. If it doesnt work still, let me know I think there may be a problem.

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
I am a Role Playing Gamer, like my father before me.

8 (edited by Fetterthanyou Friday, August 1, 2008 7:30 pm)

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Fett_II wrote:

you can't really compare Nicholson and Ledger. different directors, different decades, different views, different styles, it just can't be done.

While I agree it may be tough to say which one was a better joker overall, it is not impossible to compare the two in terms of... Jokerism.

Lets look at a few key points in the Joker repertoire and do a comparison:

                    --------------   SPOILERS!!??!! (Should have been obvious... but hey)--------------


1. Funny Factor = Obviously the Joker has to make you at least smile or else he wouldn't be the "Joker."

Nicholson- He had a few props, he always wore a smile, and nothing was serious. Everything needed a punch line and it worked in contrast to Batman's stern and almost melodramatic seriousness. Flowers squirting acid and the good old "joker venom." Gags are more the Nicholson style.

Ledger- While not as blatently a clown there is no denying the sheer brilliance of his magic pencil trick. Also when he goes to slick back his hair to meet Rachel a smile has to appear on your face. And even though the Joker nurse may make you smile again, the rest of his performance is creepy, dramatic, and chaotic. Not as much gag joking, but smiles interrupt the insane tirade.

More comic book joker goes to Nicholson, but Ledger's subtle humor comes close and adds a very nice touch to the character.


2. The Laugh = No Joker is complete without the perfect laugh. While nobody can laugh like Mark Hamill (the joker's voice on most TV shows) both Ledger and Nicholson TIE in my book in this department. Ledger's laugh pierces your heart and makes you cringe while Nicholson's makes you realize he just doesn't care what happens, and that is scary in its own way.

3. Batman's Archenemy- Joker is Batman's rival because he is so much different in terms of tone, yet so much alike that it actually scares Batman. Nicholson's joker really didn't have much in common with Batman as he was a little less psychotic genius and a little more mobster. Ledger's Joker literally states that the two share a destiny and that Batman is, "A freak" like him to the people of Gotham. The ways they mirror eachother in planning and concise action are well done and yet the nature of their moral codes sets them so far apart. They are destined to fight to eternity.

In the end... I can't pick a "better" Joker, not because they are so different, just because they are both so good. I appreciate Ledger's performance because I am older now and the movie is a little more profound, but Nicholson nailed the Joker's "comic book clown" persona. If I had to choose a winner I would say Ledger... but just by a red fuzzy nose.

PS.

Sev Fett wrote:

Nicholson was more of the BANG out of the end of the gun Joker.  And Ledger pushed the insanity to an extreme much like when Joker made a comeback to be Batman's major villain in the 70's and during the entire killing Joke thing.

While you're on the right track, I think the grenade pin Ledger's Joker pulled as he drove away on the bus (which only emitts smoke) in the very beginning of Dark Knight is too close to a "Bang Flag" gun for your metaphor to work...

Good... Bad... I'm the one with the gun.
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Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Heath Ledger played an outstanding role as The Joker in The Dark Knight.

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

I dont recall seeing Nicholson's performance, but I have to say that Ledger's Joker managed to make me laugh and unnerve me at the same time.

[i]The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed[/i]
[url=http://lfgcomic.com/page/1]Interrogations are hard...[/url]

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

don't forget: Batman Begins and Dark Knight are meant to follow more to the comics, whereas Tim Burton's adaptations was simply based on characters, setting, etc.

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Really? A lot of people have read the comics..... and Begins and Knight do not follow them at all. As someone famous said, I can't remember who, "I was there when Batman began. It wasn't like this."

Anyway, my choice is the Nicholsen Joker. Ledger's wasn't the Joker at all. He only had ONE line that sounded like something the Joker might say. Otherwise he was just some crazy bad guy with makeup.

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Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Sev Fett wrote:
Valthonin wrote:

I thought this would come up... I really don't know. They're both very iconic Jokers and I think they both play different Jokers. Nocholsen leans more towards the quirky, funny side while keeping his insanity while Ledger leans more to the insane side while maintaining a comedic feel as well. Which works out because the darker theme of the new Batman movies needed a darker Joker, while the more comic book-like, earlier films with Keaton worked better with the funnier Joker.

I am 100% with Val.  They both represented different aspects of the Joker.  Nicholson was more of the BANG out of the end of the gun Joker.  And Ledger pushed the insanity to an extreme much like when Joker made a comeback to be Batman's major villain in the 70's and during the entire killing Joke thing.

I agree completely.

Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof.

Re: Nicholsen vs Ledger

Miba wrote:

Really? A lot of people have read the comics..... and Begins and Knight do not follow them at all. As someone famous said, I can't remember who, "I was there when Batman began. It wasn't like this."

Anyway, my choice is the Nicholsen Joker. Ledger's wasn't the Joker at all. He only had ONE line that sounded like something the Joker might say. Otherwise he was just some crazy bad guy with makeup.

I was not planning on getting in on this discussion, but on your accusation of Ledger's Joker, I'm going to have to say FAIL. Ledger played an excellent Joker. I am not a Batman comic fan, and therefore he may have departed from the original idea of the Joker in a way I do not know, but it was far better than a crazy bad guy with makeup.

"Some soldiers say that to reach maximum combat efficiency, they need to be in the zone. Sir; I live in the zone." - RC 1207 'Sev' to RC 1138 'Boss'