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		<title><![CDATA[Message Boards - Boba Fett Fan Club — The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
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		<description><![CDATA[The most recent posts in The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade.]]></description>
		<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 12:12:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96561/#p96561</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, I just grew up in a time when there was no &quot;back story&quot; to BF and I enjoy him all the same. I don&#039;t have issues with people like Jetter using the character within the context of the SW universe but when people start &quot;creating&quot; canon I start to yawn.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tachyonblade)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 12:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96561/#p96561</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96558/#p96558</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>tachyonblade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well, I am certainly willing to agree to disagree but your post doesn&#039;t really address my primary question..who is writing the story here? I mean what happens if George Lucas decides that &quot;The cone Wars&quot; isn&#039;t enough? And then he decides to go on to elaborate the &quot;mando&quot;, that word leaves a bad taste in my mouth, culture and that it needs a TV series too! I am 1000% certain that all the crap that Traviss has written will be &quot;gone with the wind&quot;...Not that I think that is going to happen anytime soon..but..what if. All I am really saying, and I have paid attention to your posts in the past, is that I just don&#039;t think all the elaboration is necessary or even worth the effort. Long Story short...all I see KT&#039;s writing is as fan fiction.</p></blockquote></div><p>On the issue of what is and isn&#039;t canon, we seem to be on exactly the same page; I have posted the exact same thing myself on a couple threads.&nbsp; My only difference with you would be that Lucas doesn&#039;t &quot;elaborate&quot; on the topics in the EU, he totally bulldozes them as if they don&#039;t exist and replaces them with something else.&nbsp; You&#039;re right about KT&#039;s work being &quot;Gone with the Wind,&quot; some people think it already has been made non-canon by some of the content that has been in the cartoon.&nbsp; KT has reportedly said shes&#039; not going to write any more for Lucas on her Commando books because her previous work as been glossed over by new Lucas material that ignores her work.&nbsp; </p><p>So yes, I totally agree.&nbsp; The message coming from George seems to be that everything from the EU is little more, if more at all, than well funded FanFictions.&nbsp; If there was more to them than that, he shouldn&#039;t be able to completely disreguard them the way he does at ever turn.</p><p>My answer would be and has been to believe in whatever version of Star Wars makes you happy.&nbsp; I mean face it, Star Wars IS an alternate reality.&nbsp; Make it what you like, not what someone tells you it is; especially as far as the EU goes where there really isn&#039;t anybody who can say what is and isn&#039;t applicable anymore anyway.&nbsp; And honestly, what is any movie, novel, comic book, or naritive than a fanfiction?&nbsp; The Original Trilogy is Lucas&#039;s personal fanfiction that pays tribute to every form of storytelling that came before it; there&#039;s very little original about it, just old stories retold on a different format and with ground breaking visual affects.&nbsp; I don&#039;t get all that caught up in what I don&#039;t like about Star Wars because, really, I just ignore it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p><div class="quotebox"><cite>tachyonblade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>&nbsp; And I am posting a separate post here on purpose...<br />why do the &quot;mandos&quot; need a culture?</p></blockquote></div><p>Short answer would be why not?&nbsp; Boba Fett BEGGS to be explained because he&#039;s just so damned interesting, or so I think.&nbsp; The dark, man with out a name *or in this case without a face* character is what drew most of us to Boba, but some of us want more than that.&nbsp; I wont say I&#039;m happy with all the explanations of him, but like I said above, if goold &#039;ol George taught us anything it&#039;s that we can totally blow off whatever parts of the EU we don&#039;t like and come up with something new and *hopefully* better.&nbsp; I truely and utterly fell in love with the Mandalorians from the KotOR games and comics.&nbsp; THOSE I think should be the heritage of Boba and Jango.&nbsp; </p><p>So why should they exist?&nbsp; Cause I think they&#039;re friggin cool.&nbsp; I can&#039;t really think of a better answer than that.&nbsp; It&#039;s the reason Star Wars itself should exist.&nbsp; It doesn&#039;t further society or help feed the poor, so why does Lucas&#039;s plot-hole filled FanFiction run amuck need to be told either?&nbsp; &#039;Cause it&#039;s so damn cool.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 02:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96558/#p96558</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96551/#p96551</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>And I am posting a separate post here on purpose...<br />why do the &quot;mandos&quot; need a culture?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tachyonblade)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96551/#p96551</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96550/#p96550</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Ralin Drakus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I&#039;ve responded to your similar posts on a couple different threads; not sure if you haven&#039;t seen them or we&#039;re just gonna agree to disagree and not really debate it, but I do want to mention a couple points you have here in this new one.</p><p>I still hold to my guns that no matter what the creator’s original intent, I&#039;m not sure what your problem is with the fans trying to give life and backstory to a &#039;bit character.&#039;&nbsp; I don&#039;t think anybody disagrees that yes, it was literally a very minor character; but since you are a member of this site, you must also agree that he is an incredibly intriguing and thought provoking minor character.&nbsp; If you didn&#039;t I don&#039;t think you&#039;d be a fan or care one way or the other.&nbsp; I also agree with you to a point that he is meant to be a &#039;bad guy.&#039;&nbsp; However, keep in mind that probably the most famous and loved character in all of Star Wars is freeking Darth Vader.&nbsp; Yeah, he gets redeemed at the end, but that&#039;s not what he&#039;s known for, and that certainly wasn&#039;t what got him so much attention in the first two movies and the first 9/10ths of RotJ.&nbsp; People love him because he&#039;s a straight up BA, and there&#039;s nothing really wrong with that.&nbsp; Lots of ppl love a good bad guy, and solid fan bases for the bad guy really isn’t uncommon. </p><p>All that being said...again... I actually want to agree with you on one point this time.&nbsp; I am NOT a whole hearted fan of KT; if I was I wouldn&#039;t have taken the time write this whole thread that offers an alternative to KT&#039;s overly idyllic version of the badest warrior nation in the lore of Star Wars.&nbsp; I think she came up with some very interesting and quality concepts for a Mandalorian culture, a culture I love and worship more then even the honored Fetts, but one of her key references is very flawed I believe.&nbsp; </p><p>She wants the Mandaorians to be likened with modern day American and British type soldiers.&nbsp; This is not a comparison that should be made, at least not in the manner she uses them.&nbsp; Traviss’ Mandalorians have a brutal history of <strong><em>conquest</em></strong> and makes their living as <strong><em>mercenaries</em></strong>.&nbsp; Both titles are an insult I believe to our armed forces when you get down to the core of our military&#039;s mission.&nbsp; In general *there are always exceptions to every rule, but...* the average military man and woman&#039;s core motivation for joining the military is the voluntary act of selflessly serving their nation so that we can enjoy our freedoms as a non military state.&nbsp; They give their lives in defense of our way of life, not to fulfill some cultural lust for war.&nbsp; And they are certainly NOT mercenaries.&nbsp; A mercenary is a causeless, wandering, and usually honorless *despite what Hollywood would have you believe* lot who do <em>anything</em> for the highest bidder.&nbsp; Our servicemen are compensated fairly minimally, respect and obey the laws and regulations set before them, and serve their nation countrymen rather than just an employer.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>Our modern military is a perfect example to reference from in so far as tactics go or for examining military forms of comradery and individual behaviors and reactions in combat.&nbsp; But that’s where the depth of the reference should end.&nbsp; The Mandalorians, based on all their past history and their cultural foundation on combat and warfare, must be classified in a different category than the average real life military man.&nbsp; Any of KT’s characters, with a very few alterations, would fit very well into a story about an American team of Special Operations agents in Iraq or Afghanistan.&nbsp; Her characters would be perfect for a story about an average unit of Stormtroopers or Rebel infantrymen.&nbsp; But they shouldn’t be Mandalorian in my mind.</p><p>Going back to your point, ‘What is the connection between KT’s Mandos and Boba of the films?’&nbsp; I really can’t find much of one, but maybe some of her diehard supporters would like to chime in on that one.&nbsp; To me her characters are a mixed bag of contradictions that are far too tortured, meek, unrealistically motivated, lacking in confidence, and generally not representing my idea of a true Mandalorian.&nbsp; So I’ll give you that one</p></blockquote></div><p>Well, I am certainly willing to agree to disagree but your post doesn&#039;t really address my primary question..who is writing the story here? I mean what happens if George Lucas decides that &quot;The cone Wars&quot; isn&#039;t enough? And then he decides to go on to elaborate the &quot;mando&quot;, that word leaves a bad taste in my mouth, culture and that it needs a TV series too! I am 1000% certain that all the crap that Traviss has written will be &quot;gone with the wind&quot;...Not that I think that is going to happen anytime soon..but..what if. All I am really saying, and I have paid attention to your posts in the past, is that I just don&#039;t think all the elaboration is necessary or even worth the effort. Long Story short...all I see KT&#039;s writing is as fan fiction.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tachyonblade)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96550/#p96550</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96549/#p96549</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Ralin Drakus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I&#039;ve responded to your similar posts on a couple different threads; not sure if you haven&#039;t seen them or we&#039;re just gonna agree to disagree and not really debate it, but I do want to mention a couple points you have here in this new one.</p><p>I still hold to my guns that no matter what the creator’s original intent, I&#039;m not sure what your problem is with the fans trying to give life and backstory to a &#039;bit character.&#039;&nbsp; I don&#039;t think anybody disagrees that yes, it was literally a very minor character; but since you are a member of this site, you must also agree that he is an incredibly intriguing and thought provoking minor character.&nbsp; If you didn&#039;t I don&#039;t think you&#039;d be a fan or care one way or the other.&nbsp; I also agree with you to a point that he is meant to be a &#039;bad guy.&#039;&nbsp; However, keep in mind that probably the most famous and loved character in all of Star Wars is freeking Darth Vader.&nbsp; Yeah, he gets redeemed at the end, but that&#039;s not what he&#039;s known for, and that certainly wasn&#039;t what got him so much attention in the first two movies and the first 9/10ths of RotJ.&nbsp; People love him because he&#039;s a straight up BA, and there&#039;s nothing really wrong with that.&nbsp; Lots of ppl love a good bad guy, and solid fan bases for the bad guy really isn’t uncommon. </p><p>All that being said...again... I actually want to agree with you on one point this time.&nbsp; I am NOT a whole hearted fan of KT; if I was I wouldn&#039;t have taken the time write this whole thread that offers an alternative to KT&#039;s overly idyllic version of the badest warrior nation in the lore of Star Wars.&nbsp; I think she came up with some very interesting and quality concepts for a Mandalorian culture, a culture I love and worship more then even the honored Fetts, but one of her key references is very flawed I believe.&nbsp; </p><p>She wants the Mandaorians to be likened with modern day American and British type soldiers.&nbsp; This is not a comparison that should be made, at least not in the manner she uses them.&nbsp; Traviss’ Mandalorians have a brutal history of <strong><em>conquest</em></strong> and makes their living as <strong><em>mercenaries</em></strong>.&nbsp; Both titles are an insult I believe to our armed forces when you get down to the core of our military&#039;s mission.&nbsp; In general *there are always exceptions to every rule, but...* the average military man and woman&#039;s core motivation for joining the military is the voluntary act of selflessly serving their nation so that we can enjoy our freedoms as a non military state.&nbsp; They give their lives in defense of our way of life, not to fulfill some cultural lust for war.&nbsp; And they are certainly NOT mercenaries.&nbsp; A mercenary is a causeless, wandering, and usually honorless *despite what Hollywood would have you believe* lot who do <em>anything</em> for the highest bidder.&nbsp; Our servicemen are compensated fairly minimally, respect and obey the laws and regulations set before them, and serve their nation countrymen rather than just an employer.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>Our modern military is a perfect example to reference from in so far as tactics go or for examining military forms of comradery and individual behaviors and reactions in combat.&nbsp; But that’s where the depth of the reference should end.&nbsp; The Mandalorians, based on all their past history and their cultural foundation on combat and warfare, must be classified in a different category than the average real life military man.&nbsp; Any of KT’s characters, with a very few alterations, would fit very well into a story about an American team of Special Operations agents in Iraq or Afghanistan.&nbsp; Her characters would be perfect for a story about an average unit of Stormtroopers or Rebel infantrymen.&nbsp; But they shouldn’t be Mandalorian in my mind.</p><p>Going back to your point, ‘What is the connection between KT’s Mandos and Boba of the films?’&nbsp; I really can’t find much of one, but maybe some of her diehard supporters would like to chime in on that one.&nbsp; To me her characters are a mixed bag of contradictions that are far too tortured, meek, unrealistically motivated, lacking in confidence, and generally not representing my idea of a true Mandalorian.&nbsp; So I’ll give you that one</p></blockquote></div>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tachyonblade)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96549/#p96549</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96543/#p96543</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve responded to your similar posts on a couple different threads; not sure if you haven&#039;t seen them or we&#039;re just gonna agree to disagree and not really debate it, but I do want to mention a couple points you have here in this new one.</p><p>I still hold to my guns that no matter what the creator’s original intent, I&#039;m not sure what your problem is with the fans trying to give life and backstory to a &#039;bit character.&#039;&nbsp; I don&#039;t think anybody disagrees that yes, it was literally a very minor character; but since you are a member of this site, you must also agree that he is an incredibly intriguing and thought provoking minor character.&nbsp; If you didn&#039;t I don&#039;t think you&#039;d be a fan or care one way or the other.&nbsp; I also agree with you to a point that he is meant to be a &#039;bad guy.&#039;&nbsp; However, keep in mind that probably the most famous and loved character in all of Star Wars is freeking Darth Vader.&nbsp; Yeah, he gets redeemed at the end, but that&#039;s not what he&#039;s known for, and that certainly wasn&#039;t what got him so much attention in the first two movies and the first 9/10ths of RotJ.&nbsp; People love him because he&#039;s a straight up BA, and there&#039;s nothing really wrong with that.&nbsp; Lots of ppl love a good bad guy, and solid fan bases for the bad guy really isn’t uncommon. </p><p>All that being said...again... I actually want to agree with you on one point this time.&nbsp; I am NOT a whole hearted fan of KT; if I was I wouldn&#039;t have taken the time write this whole thread that offers an alternative to KT&#039;s overly idyllic version of the badest warrior nation in the lore of Star Wars.&nbsp; I think she came up with some very interesting and quality concepts for a Mandalorian culture, a culture I love and worship more then even the honored Fetts, but one of her key references is very flawed I believe.&nbsp; </p><p>She wants the Mandaorians to be likened with modern day American and British type soldiers.&nbsp; This is not a comparison that should be made, at least not in the manner she uses them.&nbsp; Traviss’ Mandalorians have a brutal history of <strong><em>conquest</em></strong> and makes their living as <strong><em>mercenaries</em></strong>.&nbsp; Both titles are an insult I believe to our armed forces when you get down to the core of our military&#039;s mission.&nbsp; In general *there are always exceptions to every rule, but...* the average military man and woman&#039;s core motivation for joining the military is the voluntary act of selflessly serving their nation so that we can enjoy our freedoms as a non military state.&nbsp; They give their lives in defense of our way of life, not to fulfill some cultural lust for war.&nbsp; And they are certainly NOT mercenaries.&nbsp; A mercenary is a causeless, wandering, and usually honorless *despite what Hollywood would have you believe* lot who do <em>anything</em> for the highest bidder.&nbsp; Our servicemen are compensated fairly minimally, respect and obey the laws and regulations set before them, and serve their nation countrymen rather than just an employer.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p><p>Our modern military is a perfect example to reference from in so far as tactics go or for examining military forms of comradery and individual behaviors and reactions in combat.&nbsp; But that’s where the depth of the reference should end.&nbsp; The Mandalorians, based on all their past history and their cultural foundation on combat and warfare, must be classified in a different category than the average real life military man.&nbsp; Any of KT’s characters, with a very few alterations, would fit very well into a story about an American team of Special Operations agents in Iraq or Afghanistan.&nbsp; Her characters would be perfect for a story about an average unit of Stormtroopers or Rebel infantrymen.&nbsp; But they shouldn’t be Mandalorian in my mind.</p><p>Going back to your point, ‘What is the connection between KT’s Mandos and Boba of the films?’&nbsp; I really can’t find much of one, but maybe some of her diehard supporters would like to chime in on that one.&nbsp; To me her characters are a mixed bag of contradictions that are far too tortured, meek, unrealistically motivated, lacking in confidence, and generally not representing my idea of a true Mandalorian.&nbsp; So I’ll give you that one</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2010 18:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96543/#p96543</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96527/#p96527</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>What I have the hardest problem with is very simple...<br />Boba Fett was/is a bounty hunter. He is basically, in the originally SW continuity a bad guy...he hunted and captured Han Solo (hero), he was willing to blow away Chewy at the carbon freezing chamber but Darth Vader put a stop to that. He was also willing to kill Luke and probably anyone else he saw as an enemy during the desert skiff battle. Boba Fett was ALWAYS meant to be a bad guy. So, where the hell is all this &quot;mando culture&quot; crap when it comes to Boba Fett in the films? I mean really and truly the only canon is the three original films.&nbsp; &nbsp;It seems to me, and for those of you who like Karen Traviss I&#039;m sorry, that most of the Mando culture stuff is bunk and inspired by fans. So then, who&#039;s writing the story? Karen Traviss, George Lucas or the fans. In my view, BF was so much cooler before he and his &quot;culture&quot; became so elaborated. I mean really, this guy was an enigma even to the film makers until he finally made it to the screen.<br />I remember back in the day when nobody knew what the mandolorian shock troops ever were and that Boba Fett was simply wearing their armor. Waaaay back when he was a mail-away figure.&nbsp; But then again I am really old school!</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tachyonblade)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 09:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/96527/#p96527</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/94093/#p94093</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Noticed that my Crusader Code was slightly out of date since I posted this; I&#039;ve added two more laws to the code since.&nbsp; Also cleaned out the coding errors from the first post; will get to the rest when I can.</p><p>As stated in the first post, if anybody would like to comment on my version of the Mandos I&#039;m still eagerly searching for competing ideas or additional concepts.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/94093/#p94093</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90898/#p90898</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Here&#039;s another chunk of KT&#039;s original artical.&nbsp; Hopefully I&#039;ll have another part or two I can post before the end of the night.&nbsp; I&#039;ll stop adding notes in between as I&#039;m working on a seperate thread for the Mandalorian Mercs boards that will be devoted only to giving a critique of her article, which I will also post on these boards when I&#039;m done with it.&nbsp; Here&#039;s a <a href="http://www.bobafett.com/boards/viewtopic.php?pid=90901#p90901">LINK</a> to another thread I just posted here on these boards that is devoted only to KT&#039;s article in case you&#039;d like to read it in a completely unbiaseded and seperate thread from my work and comments.&nbsp; </p><p>Enjoy&nbsp; &nbsp;<img src="http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p><p><strong>What Makes A Mandalorian</strong></p><p>Geography has played a nebulous role in Mandalorian identity.&nbsp; Although Mandalore is regarded as their homeworld, many Mandalorians were not born there and many have never even seen the planet.</p><p>Their society places no emphasis on birthplace, species, or citizenship, and so <em>MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade</em> have not Ã¢Â€ÂœstateÃ¢Â€Â as modern galactic politics understands it.&nbsp; They ignore rank and status and prefer to judge by actions and achievements, true meritocracy; the Mandalore, or leader of the clans, is the nearest they have to a head of state.&nbsp; And yet nobody mistakes Mandalorians for any other people when they see them.</p><p><em>MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade[i] regard the following six acts --- known as the Six Actions, or [i]ResolÃ¢Â€Â™Nare</em> --- as central to Mandalorian identity: wearing armor, speaking the Mandalorian language, defending themselves and their families, raising their children as Mandalorians, contributing to the clanÃ¢Â€Â™s welfare, and rallying to the <em>MandÃ¢Â€Â™alor</em> when called to arms.&nbsp; Anyone who practices them is considered <em>MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade</em>.&nbsp; The emphasis is on carrying out these acts daily, not simply paying lip service to them.</p><p>For a people who appear to have little interest in rank or hierarchy, Mandalorians are extremely co-operative in combat.&nbsp; The rugged individuality so marked in their approach to most things is set aside to reach a common goal, and theyÃ¢Â€Â™ll do whatever it takes to achieve their objective.&nbsp; Their fighting forces settle into informal command and not personal ambition.&nbsp; This instinctive flexibility is also what makes them superb mercenaries.&nbsp; </p><p>Because theyÃ¢Â€Â™re self-selecting, they attract and retain people with the same mindset and genetic predisposition, which reinforces these traits.&nbsp; The more that soldiers are to inclined to co-operate on the battlefield, the more likely they are to survive and produce children with the same characteristics.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p><br /><p> <strong>Mandalorian Society</strong></p><p>There is no gender in the Mandalorian language.&nbsp; This mirrors the equal status of men and women and the general flexibility of societal roles, despite what appears to many to be a traditional division of tasks along gender lines.</p><p>Men are expected to be warriors and to raise and train their sons to be the same.&nbsp; Women maintain the home wherever the nomads happen to travel, and raise the daughters.&nbsp; But women also are expected to have the combat skills of a man in order to defend the homestead when the men are away.&nbsp; Women also fight alongside men on the battlefield.&nbsp; If they have no dependent children to care for, theyÃ¢Â€Â™re expected to share the responsibilities of defense and warfare.</p><p>Not surprisingly, the Mandalorian femail ideal that men respect is not fragile and graceful physically strong, enduring and gritty.&nbsp; The word <em>laandur</em> (delicate), is a common insult among women.&nbsp; If you imply that a <em>Mando</em> woman is a bad mother, a poor fighter, or a <em>landur</em> (weakling) youÃ¢Â€Â™ll find out the hard way that sheÃ¢Â€Â™s none of these things.&nbsp; </p><p>Marriage is expected to be for life --- which is sometimes prematurely short for warriors Ã¢Â€Â“- and usually takes place soon after Mandalorians turn 16.&nbsp; A couple enters into a legal commitment simply by making the following pledge to each other:</p><br /><p>&nbsp; &nbsp; <strong>Mandalorian</strong>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <strong>Translation</strong><br />&nbsp; &nbsp; <em>Mhi solus tome</em>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We are one when together<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; <em>Mhi solus darÃ¢Â€Â™tome</em>&nbsp; &nbsp; We are one when parted<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; <em>Mhi meÃ¢Â€Â™di</em>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; We share all<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; <em>Mhi baÃ¢Â€Â™juri verde</em>&nbsp; &nbsp; We will raise warriors</p><br /><p>Despite their emphasis on fidelity and chastity before marriage, Mandalorians are surprisingly forgiving and relatively unconcerned with parentage.&nbsp; As they prize action and pragmatism above words and intentions, they take the view that <em>aliit oriÃ¢Â€Â™shya talÃ¢Â€Â™din</em> (family is more then bloodline).&nbsp; ItÃ¢Â€Â™s the daily affirmations of the family life that matters to them, which explains their propensity for adoption and even welcoming adults into the <em>Mando</em> fold.&nbsp; With many widows and orphans in the Mandalorian community, suitable foreign adult males are not only welcome but also necessary.&nbsp; </p><p>The adoption process, like marriage, is a simple statement of intention: the <em>gai bal manda</em> (name and soul) takes its place in the declarations <em>ni kyrÃ¢Â€Â™tayl gai saÃ¢Â€Â™ad (I know your name as my child).&nbsp; That, and the ongoing adherence to the six tenants of Mandalorian life, is all it takes to become Mandalorian.</p><p>Just as itÃ¢Â€Â™s possible to become a Mandalorian, itÃ¢Â€Â™s also possible to lose your Mandalorian status, renounce it, or even have it taken from you.&nbsp; Exile is a rare but feared punishment.</p><br /><p><strong>The Mandalorian Family</strong></p><p>[i]Ã¢Â€ÂTheir definition of offspring or parent is more by relationship then birth; Adoption is extreamely common, and itÃ¢Â€Â™s not unusual for mercenaries to take war orphans as their sons or daughters if they impress them with their aggression and tenacity.Ã¢Â€Â</em> <br />(Mandalorians: Identity and Its Influence on Genome, <em>published by the Galactic Institute of Anthropology.</em>) </p><p>In exceptional circumstances, such as abandonment or a failure to live up to responsibilities, partners and divorce each other simply by declaring that they are <em>shukÃ¢Â€Â™la riduurok</em> (a broken love).&nbsp; Children may also disown their father or mother by declaring them <em>darÃ¢Â€Â™buir</em> (no longer a parent).&nbsp; This is rare and usually only follows abandonment or an act of cowardice that shames them family.&nbsp; </p><p> If the first child is a son, parents may wait eight years before having another child so that the first is old enough to accompany his father and be trained as a soldier for five years until he reaches adulthood at 13.&nbsp; Then his father is free to train a younger son.&nbsp; At 13, both girls and boys undergo a rite of passage in military and survival skills that makes them legally adults.&nbsp; </p><p>If the firstborn is a girl, the couple may try for a son soon afterwards.&nbsp; A daughter will usually stay with her mother until she marries.&nbsp; But if a couple has only daughters, the girls will be trained as warriors by their father exactly as boys would be.&nbsp; Boys learn their earliest lessons from their mothers before the age of eight, so her fighting skills are critical; a couple pledges to raise warriors, and this is a joint commitment.</p><p>Women are expected to train their daughters in combat skills, but fathers also take part in their daughterÃ¢Â€Â™s education.&nbsp; Despite their fiercely masculine reputation, Mandalorian men play an active role in raising their families.&nbsp; Most have a strong parenting instinct, one of the reinforced genetic traits from absorbed populations.&nbsp; </p><p>The parentsÃ¢Â€Â™ duty is to train their child in survival skills and Mandalorian culture and language, and to prepare them for raise the next generation of warriors.&nbsp; Elder imbue children with the essential Mandalorian ideals of loyalty of clan and family, personal discipline, courage, and respect for their heritage.</p><p>The Mandalorian way of life is a dangerous one and widows and orphans are a fact of life.&nbsp; Families never hesitate to adopt orphans, and unmarried men and women regard is as their duty to take widows and widowers as spouses.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90898/#p90898</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90509/#p90509</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Ok, one more addition before I crash for the ni....day&nbsp; &nbsp;<img src="http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/img/smilies/tongue.png" width="15" height="15" alt="tongue" /></p><p>Giving this a seperate post because it&#039;ll be part of my second set of notes.&nbsp; In my rewrite the next section incorporated this as well as the next several of KT&#039;s little &#039;chapters.&#039;&nbsp; I&#039;ll add them all up here so that each post ends in my notes comparing my work and hers.&nbsp; </p><p>Here&#039;s the <a href="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Mandalorians:_People_and_Culture">WIKI LINK</a> to the Star Wars Insider issue that this was written in.&nbsp; If anybody could upload/find a digial copy for me and link it here you&#039;d save me the work of actually copying everything over by hand&nbsp; &nbsp;<img src="http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" />&nbsp; &nbsp;Even if I get the link, however, I&#039;m still into adding these comparison posts and my notes to shed light on where I&#039;m coming from with my ideas and hopefully get some feedback.&nbsp; I can&#039;t stress enough how much I&#039;d love to get some opinions to bounce off of, good or bad</p><p>Here&#039;s the next unedtited section of KT&#039;s original piece:</p><br /><p><strong>WARRIOR NOMADS</strong></p><p>Nomadic peoples prize portable skills more then possessions, and this aspect of the <em>Mando</em> mindset still underpins their society even when settled on Mandalore.&nbsp; Even when living in settled communities on Mandalore, their nomadic warrior ethic remains.&nbsp; </p><p>Inevitably, a nomadic warrior race with no fixed territory to defend becomes associated with mercenary activity.&nbsp; For centuries the <em>MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade</em> --- or children of Mandalore, as they call themselves --- have been seen as little more then bounty hunters, assassins, and mercenaries.</p><p>But not all <em>MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade</em> spend their lives as hired soldiers.&nbsp; Their mercenary history is very recent and relatively brief, and they have other trades related to soldiering that earn them a living when they arenÃ¢Â€Â™t at war.&nbsp; </p><p>Many, scattered across the galaxy in small communities, earn their living as weaponsmiths, bodyguards and other occupations that the host population finds too dangerous or too dirty.&nbsp; Many remain in the Mandalore sector, working the land or laboring in factories and workshops.&nbsp; All of them, though, are capable of becoming an army at a momentÃ¢Â€Â™s notice.</p><p>Over the centuries, some have questioned the Mandalorian compulsion to cling to nomadic ways despite having a home world in Mandalore.&nbsp; The practice, though, is more then attachment to tradition.&nbsp; Mandalorians spread themselves to avoid presenting enemies with a convenient target.&nbsp; Despite repeated attacks that were thought to have wiped them out, the resilient Mandalorians keep coming back.</p><p>While they have earned their living more recently as soldiers of fortune, most of the MandaloriansÃ¢Â€Â™ history has been spent fighting for their own purposes, not others.&nbsp; But although theyÃ¢Â€Â™re a ruthless enemy, they display an unexpected gentle side in warfare by adopting war orphans.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90509/#p90509</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90508/#p90508</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Ok, with time constraints and the simple fact that copying this is just a plain pain in the butt, it&#039;s gonna take a while for me to copy over KT&#039;s original work on the Mandalorians.&nbsp; So rather then waiting forever to copy the whole thing and then posting it, I&#039;ll just copy bits as I write them. </p><p>I&#039;ll probably make a new thread with just her work when the whole thing is up, but until then, I&#039;ll use it as a comparison piece for my rewrite.&nbsp; With each post, I&#039;ll also copy my rewrite of that part with some notes on why I changed certian parts.&nbsp; I invite any and all comments on what you think of her work and/or mine, and hope I can get some constructive feedback so I can streamline my Old Republic theories.</p><p>Here&#039;s KT&#039;s intro and first part:</p><br /><p><strong>THE MANDALORIANS</strong></p><p><strong>By Karen Traviss</strong></p><p><strong>In five millennia, the Mandalorians fought with and against a thousand armies on a thousand worlds.&nbsp; They learned to speak as many languages and absorbed weapons and technology and tactics from every war.&nbsp; And yet, despite the overwhelming influence of alien cultures, and the absence of a true homeworld and even species, their own language not only survived but changed little; their way of live and their philosophy remained untouched; and their ideals and sense of family, of identity, of nation, were only strengthened.&nbsp; Armor is not what makes a Mandalorian.&nbsp; Armor is simply a manifestation of an impenetrable, unassailable heart.&nbsp; </strong></p><br /><p><strong>ORIGINS</strong></p><p>Mandalorians are people of contradictions.&nbsp; They have an unmistakable identity, yet theyÃ¢Â€Â™re not a true race.&nbsp; They have no country in the conventional sense and are scattered across the galaxy.&nbsp; These feared warriors have a savage reputation but they cherish family life and will adopt children orphaned by war, rather then kill them as other species might.&nbsp; This odd blend of tough pragmatism, brutality and affectionate family life makes them a mystery to many.</p><p>And theyÃ¢Â€Â™re probably not even the <em>original</em> Mandalorian race.&nbsp; Anthropologists disagree about their roots; did they begin as humans or, as a few academics still claim, a gray-skinned non human species?&nbsp; Whichever theory you find most convincing, they became a species of predominantly human nomadic warriors.</p><p>For the vast majority of species, culture is the unique expression of their being.&nbsp; When species are overrun by other cultures, and adopt their beliefs and practices, they still retain something of their old ways.</p><p>But the Mandalorians are an exception.&nbsp; They adopted a culture and became totally defined by it.&nbsp; Their nearest parallel, ironically, is the Jedi Ã¢Â€Â“ with whom the Mandalorians have had so much antagonism and conflict.</p><p>Whatever drove the first humans to adopt Mandalorian customs and language, they remain a people who accept anyone willing to follow their code, and non-human species are welcomed into the community.&nbsp; Mandalorians believe that you are what you do, not what an accident of birth dictates.&nbsp; </p><p>But they&#039;re still predominantly human, and a large percentage of the population shows genetic markers typical of the peoples of Concord Dawn and nearby planets.&nbsp; Although there is no true Mandalorian ethnic type, the prevalence of common gene indicates that specific populations were either absorbed by the Mandalorians or joined them.&nbsp; </p><p>Concord Dawn is a good example.&nbsp; Jango Fett, one of the icons of Mandalorian history, was adopted.&nbsp; And yet his genome already shared many markers with his adopted community, without deliberate planning, Mandalorians nevertheless selectively bred themselves for certain traits that are now considered their defining characteristics; discipline, close family bonds, extraordinary physical fighting skills, and intense loyalty.&nbsp; &nbsp; </p><br /><br /><p>And again, here&#039;s my revision for your camparing pleasure:</p><br /><p><strong>THE MANDALORIANS: PEOPLE AND CULTURE</strong></p><p><strong>A revision of Karen Traviss&#039;s Mandalorian history and an alternative view of the MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade by Ralin Drakus</strong></p><p><strong>In five millennia, the Mandalorians have fought with and against thousands of armies on as many worlds across the galaxy.&nbsp; They absorbed and improved upon the weapons, technology, and tactics of every culture they have encountered, and have welcomed recruits from any and every planetary system.&nbsp; And yet, despite the overwhelming influence of so many alien cultures, their own distinct language and cultural identity has not only survived but evolved very little over time.&nbsp; &nbsp;Their warriorÃ¢Â€Â™s ideals, strong sense of family, and devotion to their clan and nation have remained all but untouched in their storied history.&nbsp; Their armor, though universally recognizable, is not what makes a Mandalorian.&nbsp; It is simply a manifestation of an impenetrable, unassailable heart.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</strong></p><p>Note: Despite their mention, the Neo-Crusaders are not covered in this history.&nbsp; This is due to their deeper and well-known coverage in other articles, as well as the short duration of their existence.</p><br /><p><strong>ORIGINS</strong></p><p>Mandalorians are a people of contradictions.&nbsp; They have an unmistakable identity, yet they are not a race.&nbsp; Mandalorians have accepted varied species into their ranks for generations.&nbsp; They have a nationalistic pride, yet no home world or country in the typical sense.&nbsp; Though the planet Mandalore is a safe haven and home to many, countless Mandalorians have never even seen the ancestral home of their culture.&nbsp; Their way of life revolves around war and bloodshed, yet have the tightest family bonds that extend beyond blood relation.&nbsp; It is a common practice for Mandalorian warriors to adopt orphaned children, even those of their enemies.&nbsp; This unique blend of harsh yet accepting, brutal yet loving characteristics has made the Mandalorians a mystery to much of the galaxy</p><p>Anthropologists disagree about the roots of the modern day Mandalorian, or MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade in their native language.&nbsp; Were the first Mandos humans, or as some academics claim a gray skinned, near-human race who were driven from ancient Coruscant millennia ago <em>by</em> humans?&nbsp; The real answer may never be known.&nbsp; Whatever the case, what is known is that humans have been the predominant species of the Mandalorian nation for the last four thousand years if not longer.&nbsp; This being said, any species who follows the laws and lifestyle of the MandoÃ¢Â€Â™ade is considered Mandalorian.&nbsp; It is their unique way of life that sets them apart from the rest of the galaxy, and not their shade of skin. </p><p>Many question how the Mandalorian culture has survived intact for so many generations.&nbsp; The answer is quite simple.&nbsp; For the vast majority of species, culture is the unique expression of their being.&nbsp; With most species, as they are overrun or otherwise enveloped over time by their neighbors, the two cultures are melded.&nbsp; The conquered species adopts much of the newcomerÃ¢Â€Â™s mode of life while retaining and sharing elements of their ancestral culture. The Mandalorians are no exception.&nbsp; The difference is that, perhaps through sheer hard-headedness but more likely due to their loose knit cultural structure, the Mandalorians have all but completely evaded conquest or absorption into another cultureÃ¢Â€Â™s lifestyle.&nbsp; Outside species are adopted or are invited based on their pre-existing similarity to the Mando culture already, and their highly mobile and decentralized structure have protected them from invasion.&nbsp; Thus they have maintaining one of the few truly long lasting civilizations in the galaxy.&nbsp; This long-lived cultural identity has served to further increase the sense of belonging that is already inherent in Mandalorian society.&nbsp; Ironically, the Jedi Order is probably the closest parallel that the Mandalorians have.&nbsp; The Jedi are almost surely the only group to have maintained an all but unchanged code of living that is <em>(probably)</em> older then the Mandalorian culture.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>The only moment in known Mandalorian history in which their culture took a noticeable change of direction was after the catastrophic end of the Mandalorian Wars.&nbsp; Over the next four thousand years, slavery vanished as a common Mandalorian practice, women took a truly equal role as men in all aspects of Mando life, and their modern mode of a truly nomadic lifestyle took root.&nbsp; Despite these drastic cultural fluxes, the heart of Mandalorian ideals remained the same.&nbsp; Their Honor Code went unchanged, their language never altered, and none of their core values were touched.</p><br /><p><strong>NOTES</strong></p><p>This was one of the passages where I tweeked KT&#039;s work a little more then just adding my own material because, obviously since this is the &#039;Origains&#039; section, she&#039;s delving into what I hope will be my territory of ancient Mandalorian history.&nbsp; In all honesty, I found her work here a bit lacking, and I felt the need to add information to her arguments, or in some places contradict her outright.&nbsp; I found her writing to have more contradictions then the Mandos themselves...&nbsp; </p><p>Like I&#039;ve come to expect in her books, she tells a lot more then she shows.&nbsp; I edited the first paragraph of the Origins section because she gave no real examples for her assertions.&nbsp; I hoped to fix this while still staying true to her ideas.&nbsp; </p><p>Second paragraph had some holes as well.&nbsp; It comes close to being a contradiction of the paragragh just before it.&nbsp; &quot;Anybody can be Mando... but they&#039;re all human&quot; was the general theme I got from it.&nbsp; I just gave a little more historic reference to the human surge in the Mando ranks, and reminded everybody that it&#039;s still the case that anybody*thing* can be Mando</p><p>The next two paragraphs made not sense to me whatsoever.&nbsp; Nothing wrong with the first one, but then it&#039;s challenged by the second.&nbsp; Apparently KT thinks that the Mandalorians ARE an exception to the rule that culture is their unique expression of a group&#039;s being, and that if overrun that culture will then evolve.&nbsp; I&#039;m not sure how their adoption of their &quot;...culture and became totally defined by it&quot; makes them different from anybody else.&nbsp; And then she fails give any further explaination of why the Mandalorians are different.&nbsp; I tried to give a historical explanation for why the Mando culture has survived, while flatly disagreeing with her assertion.&nbsp; Hope to hear what y&#039;all think of this one</p><p>Third to last paragraph I&#039;d already covered, so it was omitted</p><p>Last two paragraphs were also repetitive to information I&#039;d already added to fill holes I felt were in KT&#039;s writing, and completely removed them from my work as well.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </p><br /><p>Very eager for comments, arguments, complements, suggestions, or any combination there of&nbsp; &nbsp; <img src="http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90508/#p90508</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90161/#p90161</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Thank ya sir!&nbsp; <img src="http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p><p>Again, this is a re-write of KT&#039;s original work, so I don&#039;t take much credit for the style or structure, or any at all for the perspective on the modern day Mando of course, as it&#039;s not entirely even a view of the Mando&#039;ade that I&#039;m overly fond of.&nbsp; I&#039;m just trying to give life to the perspective of the Mando cutlure that I originally thought was true when I first becme a fan with the KotOR series.&nbsp; </p><p>If anybody thinks I&#039;m flawed in my views of the KotOR era Mandos, knows of facts that contradict my ideas, or would like to add information, I&#039;d love too hear other points of view on the subject here as critiques on this work.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 10:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90161/#p90161</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90159/#p90159</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>well done Ralin, very well done</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (BFFC therealmccoy)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 06:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90159/#p90159</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90156/#p90156</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I tryed to keep to KT&#039;s original intent as far as the modern day Mandos are concerned.&nbsp; I skimmed some info out to focus more on the content I wanted to add, but I think I stayed true to what her vision of the Mando&#039;ade is like; I just relegated it to a modern day era rather a universal view.&nbsp; Every point where you see a comparison of &#039;Crusader&#039; vs. &#039;Modern&#039; Mandalorians, the Crusader info is created by me, while the &#039;modern&#039; is my interpretation or a straight up copy of KT&#039;s vision.&nbsp; Feel free to comment on which you like better or if you think this history as I&#039;ve written it could work; I&#039;d love to get an idea if more people then just me feel the same about what Mando&#039;s were probably like in the Crusader era.&nbsp; </p><p>I would have posted her original artical with this to give you a better idea of my changes, but unfortunately I don&#039;t have a digital copy of her original work.&nbsp; I&#039;d have to copy everything over, and her artical is actually just as long if not longer then my revised one *left a couple pages out that didn&#039;t really apply to my comparison piece*</p><p>If anybody has a link to the original artical I&#039;d appreciate it if you could post it here.&nbsp; If not I&#039;ll see about copying it over when I can.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Ralin Drakus)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 04:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90156/#p90156</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: The CounterCulture- A Different Take on KT's Mando'ade]]></title>
			<link>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90153/#p90153</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that took a while to read. So, what was KT&#039;s version like?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Fett_II)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 01:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/90153/#p90153</guid>
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