nah, i think the idea of predestination (in the sense of you are either going to heaven or hell) is moronic.
I tend to agree.
My earlier post brings to mind another reason I can't consider myself a christian...."only the Sith deal in absolutes." I have a hard time seeing the world in black-and-white terms and that's what a question like, "do you believe in evolution or creation" forces people to do, not on this list but I mean in a more general way. These kinds of debates are starting to break apart society and the world. No matter how you put it, if you consider yourself a born-again christian, everyone that is not is going to hell, and that is not something anyone wants to hear.
What I am saying is that modern christianity can be off-putting if the delivery is not handled in a delicate way.
I hope God is there but I can't be positive so I am not going to commit to something without being convinced.
Indeed, indeed, indeed.
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Hard-line atheists think it's one or the other.
Hard-line Christians/Religious believers think it's one or the other.
And I, like you, don't agree with it.
Others clearly do and I tend to think they need that. I don't think they can have it up for discussion, everything must be black and white if not for any other reason than they need the security that comes with that approach.
Sometimes I feel unsure about fate and free will. A lot of the time, I feel we all make our choices, and nothing is predetirmined. But, then I see the future (no this is not some BS I really do see the future in my dreams....nothing special though. Just tests, or eating out. There are more signifigant [game realated] dreams though) and then I wonder if there really is free will.
I don't doubt that, I have the same.
I think it is important to act as if we have free will whether we do or not. Not to think "ah well, there's nothing I can do to fight it so I'll act as I've always acted, it's gone fine so far" or "I know I'm gonna end up doing this, so I better do it" if it's something you have realised is immoral.
I think people should always fight immorality whether they do indeed end up doing it in the end due to pressures beyond their control or not.
I tend to reckon whether we truly have free will or not isn't something we should consider, we should assume we do and act accordingly.
I personally think if you believe everything you do to be determined you end up more immoral than if you consider at least some choices to be free, probably because you're more likely to be lazy about changing yourself or not if you feel you are determined to act a certain way.
But yes, I have very recently studied Free will and determinism so that remains fresh in my mind.
Seco Fett wrote:
Hmmm you see the future...please dream that my parents will take me to a Japanese grill on Sunday = ) Pleeeze?
But as for free will, agree with you, and you too Humorbot. I think like you CCDF, in the part about free will. We make our own choices. But I think that God knows what choices we will make. And as for you HB5, good job on expressing how God is not bound by time. Saves me some for not having to write all that.
look, this topic has no point, you can throw facts at each other all day long but nobody is going to change their beliefs because of what was said on a star wars forum, no one.
i say drop it, close it, and agree to disagree
this is going no where
Certainly you have misunderstood the reason I am speaking here sir, but I cannot necessarily speak for anyone else.
I post on this particular thread for discussion (as I have said), to hear other people's views, thoughts and ideas and consider them.
I have several passions and one of them just so happens to be philosophy, so that explains that/
I have no intention of changing anyone's views, I realise fully people need the opinions they express here. To "poo-poo" them would be downright satanic of me or anyone else in my opinion, but to hear them is to help them understand their views.
Honestly I find there is no better way to understand one's own thoughts and feelings on their own beliefs than to tell them to someone else.
And although I haven't specifically said "Tell me what you believe", by saying what I have said I reckon I have gotten some of the people here to express their views and ideas here that they may not have expressed to anyone recently or at all.
Alternatively perhaps the people here tell their views to all who are willing to listen. Those people I believe enjoy telling anyone their views. I suppose it's hard to understand but there are many people who are just satisfied to know that they have expressed their views.
And similarly I believe I am much more providing someone who will listen, respond and discuss than someone who argues with them because he disagrees.
Obviously when I am putting forward views I favour I have been less to point out the pit falls in the argument, but certainly some views I favour that I have put forward I have poked holes in.
But yes. (Very long post, I apologise) I had already agreed to disagree about beliefs before I posted in this thread, I had not however necessarily agreed to disagree on the idea that this topic has no point. I believe it does and I believe I have put forward the reasons why it has a point clearly and informatively.
That said, at this point I will agree to disagree with you should you still feel this thread has no point.
Thank you for reading any/all/none (delete as applicable) of this.
Last edited by Humorbot5 (Friday, January 30, 2009 4:21 pm)
Disciple Sift Through Lies; Few Grains Of Truth Be Known...