Re: Karen Traviss...

like KT or not, that's what Mandalorians are, and what they are going to be. Boba Fett is no longer the lone gunman BH silent type, he is the leader of a very large group of people. He may suck at it sometimes, but they are beginning to trust him. He is becoming everything that Jango and Jaster ever wanted to be, a true Mandalore.
After a 50+ year career as one of the galaxy's most infamous bounty hunters, you cannot possibly expect a man to stay the same as when he was 30.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Thats a good way to put it, Peaple become more wise with age and as time passes Boba will learn and become a stronger leader Like Jango and Jaster before him.

Church... when I die I want you to have my orange juice!

128 (edited by Ralin Drakus Sunday, July 5, 2009 6:53 pm)

Re: Karen Traviss...

Just to add some food for thought, here's the LINK to what I've been able to copy so far from KT's article in StarWarsInsider #86.  I feel the article gives the clearest, most direct look at where KT is coming from and her idea of who and what a Mandalorian is.  It gives a fairly clear format of her exact interpretation of Mandalorian society, and gives a better understanding of why she writes the things she does reguarding the Mandalorians and our favorite bounty hunter.

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Basically I guess I'm just very tired of all of the KT hate going around, and the Troy Denning hate for that matter. It's like when people bash on George Lucas for the prequel trilogy. Seriously, get over it. In the harsh reality, whether or not we, the peon fans, like or dislike something, it remains the same.

Boba Fett watched his father die in front of him, grew up, became a bounty hunter, got married, became a father, left his wife and child, hunted Han Solo, fell into the Sarlacc, escaped the Sarlacc, hunted Han Solo some more, let Han Solo go, met up with Fenn Shysa, killed Fenn Shysa out of mercy, became Mandalore, helped the Republic win the war against the Yuuzhan Vong, found out he was going to die, called the Mandalorians together, found out he has a granddaughter, trained Jaina Solo to kill her brother, found out his wife was encased in carbonite, found out he wasn't going to die anymore, told his brain-damaged wife the truth, and fought along side Daala and the Imperial Remnant while they assisted the Republic against Darth Caedus while the moffs poisoned his planet with a chemical weapon that only targeted people with the Fett-genes.

That long run-on sentence, while missing some parts, is basically what Boba Fett is. While we are all free to have our opinions on the matter, nothing we do or say is going to change it, so I figure we might as well try and understand and appreciate what we have.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Most impressive.  Boba Fett in a nut shell. 

And just because it's reality doesn't mean we can't complain about it.  Take the American Presidency for example.  Even though he won some people will still complain. 

Aha.  And once reading over McCoy's post again I realize he already said that.  I may as well add something.  Some people have grown up idolizing this character for his mysterious traits and don't appreciate when people try to change it.  And even though I did admire that mysterious Boba when I first saw him, in coming from a younger generation, I am less stuck to the idea of that enigmatic Boba Fett. 

I really do appreciate what Karen Traviss has done.  She took the Mandalorian culture and made something out of it and now it has exploded into an entire subsection of fans.  There would be a gap in my Star Wars fandom if she had not taken the step and written some of her material.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

131 (edited by Ralin Drakus Monday, July 6, 2009 5:55 am)

Re: Karen Traviss...

BFFC therealmccoy wrote:

Basically I guess I'm just very tired of all of the KT hate going around, and the Troy Denning hate for that matter. It's like when people bash on George Lucas for the prequel trilogy. Seriously, get over it. In the harsh reality, whether or not we, the peon fans, like or dislike something, it remains the same........While we are all free to have our opinions on the matter, nothing we do or say is going to change it, so I figure we might as well try and understand and appreciate what we have.

Ok, I don't want to twist what you're trying to say, but I honestly have to look at your post and come away with the feeling that you're telling everybody to 'shut the hell up...I like the new Boba, and that's good enough for me.  All the rest of you can shove it.'  I'm fairly sure that's not your real intention, but that's very easily how your post could be read, and that's almost your tone. 

I don't see where the problem is that you have with dissent with KT.  If you are a fan of the new era Boba and/or the Mandalorians, more power to you.  And I not only support your freedom to back up your opionion with supporting facts, ideas, and personal leanings on the subject but enjoy countering them with my own.  I'm sorry if you don't agree, and wish you wouldn't take it so personally that others are not as happy with the newer 'unmaksed' version of the Mando'ade as you are.  I personally AGREE that Boba probably had a soft side of some sort under that armored surface, BUT I totally respect other's opionion that he doesn't have to have a soft gooy core, nor do I agree that EVERYBODY softens with age.

We all have a different opinion on this subject, and it's made that much more touchy on this forum considering who our favorite bounty hunter is and what his roots are.  I refuse to be told that I HAVE to like what he's become, what his people have become, and where they are going.  As I said, I not only understand but support your freedom to like, love, or hate anything written about Anybody; I just hope you'll give the rest of us the same leeway

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Ralin Drakus wrote:

I don't see where the problem is that you have with dissent with KT.

My point is, basically, where does the above get you?

We can all stomp our feet and claim to the heavens that we hate Jar Jar Binks, but it will never change Episode I. Therefore we might as well try and understand who and why he is as a character in a saga that is ever changing in front of us.


PS. let it be known that good god I hate Jar Jar Binks lol

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

Re: Karen Traviss...

BFFC therealmccoy wrote:

PS. let it be known that good god I hate Jar Jar Binks lol

lolz, good to know   tongue

As to the 'point,' Star Wars is one of the most fan-driven enterprises on earth.  Our opinion does, if made loud enough, count for something.  Especially in our case as Fett/Mando fans.  Does anybody really think that KT would have a Lucas contract writing about Mando-taught clones, that Jango would have had a serious role in the prequels, or that Boba Fett would be one of the most marketed characters in every sales promotion related to Star Wars if it wasn't for the cult-like following we FettFans have created all on our own?

OR, just as importantly, Star Wars is big enough for any and all ideas reguarding pretty much anything!  Like I'm doing: I personally no longer care for the KT driven Mandalorian society, so I therefore have switched my focus on a different timeline of Mando history *in my case the Crusaders of the KotOR era* and I devote my energies to creating the Mandos of my dreams there.

Don't let yourself be silenced by the odds of something changing.  Let your voice be heard if you have a problem, and if there is a large base of support that agrees with you, who knows what might happen?  And if not, you gave it an effort, and you can explore a little deeper in the awesome universe that is Star Wars until you find that perfect nitch that you can call your own.

That's my motivation

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Viva la revolution!  >.>

Man I feel inspired to go stage a government coup or something.

No but seriously I agree with Ralin in that it was the fascination of Fett by the fans which instigated KT to go and write up on our favourite culture.  I think there was an event in DC where the fans whined enough about one Robin Batman had and the writers put it up to a vote and the fans voted him dead.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

lol. There's been like 4 or 5 Robins so far, and 3 of them have died (Killing Joke was one of the best comics ever).

Anyways, I am more proud than anything that we have a community to debate topics just like this. This isn't your standard "OMG Boba Fett could totally pwn Darth Vader" thread, this is the result of a very well voiced and opinionated group of Fett freaks.

Hats off to you Ralin big_smile

As for standing up for your favorite version of Fett, I absolutely respect that. I know people *cough* Aaron *cough* that haven't even read the Legacy of The Force books (hehe). Some people are just the movie Fett, others from the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy. Whatever your Fett fancy, this is the place to be no doubt.

Having said that, if you don't like KT, good luck with your protest wink hehe
I'll be over here enjoying old Mandalore Boba Fett with his helmet off, let me know how it works out for you
lol, in all seriousness, you never know what is coming next now that Fett can't go on planet Mandalore anymore, and we have a new Fett book in the works. Something could change or happen again that makes it all come together and make sense in a way we all enjoy.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Hey, I'm just trying make the point that there is room for debate on this as well as most any issue regarding our Fettish, and that there is a point and purpose to letting our opinions be heard. 

Glad if my 'revolutionary indoctrination' there was a success    tongue

And I'll have to number myself with Aaron on not having read any of the Legacy books yet.  I'm more of a fan of the films, the Han Solo Trilogy, and Bounty Hunter Wars Boba fan.  I'm also the wanna-be writer, so I've tried to augment what I know as much as possible through source material and bios, though I know that's a poor substitute for actually reading the material *which I hope to do someday.* 

And on a final note, just to make it clear what my own personal beef with KT is, I've never been one to complain about the new Boba.  I've very specifically avoided any judgments on KT's version of him for the glaring reason that I don't know what her version is.  I've heard a lot of the complaints, but I've actually felt a connection to what I've heard about him as Karen seems to have taken down a road I myself wanted to do in my own FanFiction that I was working on.  My primary concern is the Commando books.  I have a huge amount of respect for her: she created the Mando'a language, AND she gave me a huge boost of confidence in my own creative ability when I learned later that she and I had come to very similar conclusions about the Mandalorian training sergeant’s influence on the clones - she didn't take Jango's intentions nearly as far as I did, but I still felt good that I had some very similar concept ideas as a published author. 

My only real bone to pick with her is that #1, I'm not a huge fan of her style and the motivations she's given the characters in the Commando books.  Up to the point I've read so far, she has in my opinion failed to write for multiple characters.  She is instead basically writing a 'Save The Clone's' propaganda piece without any other real drive or motivation for anybody else.  Every main character she's written perspective through *other then the Mando villain in Hard Contact, and with a little time I have no doubt he would have fallen into line as well had he survived* has turned to mush on the subject.  Not that I'm saying that it's not a worthy cause in the least, and were I my Mando character I don't know that I wouldn't agree.  HOWEVER, this is not why I bought a story about Republic Commandos, nor do I find it believable that the EVERYBODY she's writing for would come to the Exact same conclusions so quickly.  This is, I think, a flaw in her writing style.  I find that a great deal of the time she 'tells rather then shows,' a grave error in the writing business.  Hard Contact was a Great book!  But since then she doesn't seem to want to try as hard to show us her character's 'true colors' with actions, instead just telling us that they usually act one way, and then letting them contradict this supposed Bad@$$-cold killer persona that she tells us they have to give them a nice cuddly feel all through the book.  I find it all very contradictory and unbelievable

And Second, I dislike that she’s taking a culture that was kept alive by a huge fanbase of people and molding it to fit her own personal tastes with little to no input by the people that are paying her bills.  I agree with Sev, she has done some great things with the Mando’ade: she gave us a language, she’s brought the Mandalorian culture higher and exposed it to a newer multitude of fans who otherwise might never have known about it.  However, I personally feel that she’s taking swings at the culture that are far too encompassing.  As a writer, I understand that you need to create backstory, history, and roots for your characters, and in this case since there was so little canon material for the Mandalorians she had to create it herself.  But I feel that she went overkill and is, purposely or not, drowning any hope of anyone besides her influencing the Mandalorian culture and what it is.  She didn’t create the Mandalorians.  She wasn’t the first to write about them.  And she was certainly not the only voice in keeping the Mandalorian culture in existence up to this point.  Yet she has taken it upon herself alone to not only create a intricately detailed and mapped out society, but also destroy almost any hope of injecting any other ideas or hopes for what he hoped the Mandalorians should have been or what they might be.

I feel that this is a tragic moment for those fans like myself who wanted to be part of creating the culture that has been a huge piece of our lives for so long.

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

read the books Ralin, you just might like them. Hell i skimmed through the first 2 with Fett (there's only 4) and smiled the entire time.

The part us said about her not taking tips form the people 'paying her bills' is just flat out incorrect. KT is heavily influenced by the fans. She maintains and responds frequently to questions and discussions on her star wars.com blog. She has also been heavily involved in several different costuming and mandalorian fan organizations and members thereof in developing the language, culture, weapons, etc. See my article on Novall Talon and Ram Zerimar if you don't believe me. She made Mandalorian culture for us, not herself. She certainly didn't just say she's the only one who can write about them either, because the last book in LOTF featuring Mandos was written by Troy Denning.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

Re: Karen Traviss...

BFFC therealmccoy wrote:

read the books Ralin, you just might like them. Hell i skimmed through the first 2 with Fett (there's only 4) and smiled the entire time

I did buy Bloodlines just for the Boba cover...lolz.  I had to do it, that pic is my old Av   tongue   Tried to do the 'skim over just the Boba parts' as you did, but found myself too lost in an era that's just way too far in the future from what I'm familiar with.  But I will get caught up on it all at some point

About KT, I just have to be skeptical of just who it is she's listening to and how open she is to all sides of the fanbase.  Not that I doubt your word in any way - and I admit that I've never frequented her website or blog very much simply because as the wanna-be writer that I am I prefer my own ideas and ventures, though I have checked out both a few times to get links to her Mando'a translations etc.  But as you've also said, there is a LOT of KT hating and whining from the fans Because she hasn't taken the direction many if not most of the oldschool fans wanted to see.  Maybe she made the tactical decision that she couldn't make everybody happy, so it was better to pander to the newer generation readers at the expense of the original fans *who are the ones you most hear that are butt-hurt over most everything KT does.*  And that is true, you Can't make everybody happy.  I just feel that there was more of a middle ground that she could have explored that wouldn't have drawn such a line in the sand. 

Also, I never meant to say that She said she was the only one who could write about the Mandalorians.  I was trying to say that she has, in her fairly brief time as the primary writer for Boba and the Mando'ade, created such an elaborate and detailed history for the Mandalorians of the recent generations that it's almost impossible for anybody else to even try to add anything to their history and culture - all new writers are forced to view them as she does because she's made such an elaborate and now canon group of people. 

I guess the argument could be made that this is a good thing - her culture is far from being All that I would have liked to see, but in the long run it could have been a lot worse, and she has prevented some doosh from really screwing it up.... who knows?

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

I think Karren Travis is great... She is really nice to her fans and writes the best SW books without competition... Though... I have to say I didnt read all SW books, but I have a hard time beliving there is someone better then her...

Ante Gotovina is a knight of valor in the dungeon of lies.

Re: Karen Traviss...

I think it's unfair and maybe even incorrect to say that she chose to write for a new generation of fans. Just because it appears like older 'fans' are disgruntled doesn't mean that she wrote it for younger fans.

That is all just happenstance and bias. Most people who enjoy her books might not even go to the forums to preach about it, seems that we only hear all the complaining because those are the whiners that take time out of their nerdy day of playing WoW to cry on the forums about how they could write Boba so much kewler than she could lol

not really fair to say that about people who disagree with her either tho is it? no

We can't really take a poll about who dislikes and likes Karen Traviss, because there is always going to be that heavier end of people that hate everything that flock to the internet to complain about it. People who don't hate everything tend to not dwell on it and go about their day.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

Re: Karen Traviss...

One doesn't need to isolate ones self to come up with original ideas. The true artist/writer/creator takes all that is around them and interpenetrate what they hear or see and blends them with whatever on earth is going on in their heads at the time and creates something new. How about artist colonies? Or the salon's of yore? It's always about feeding off of each other, nuturing the creative energies. Not that the only way to create is when involved in a group, but its one way.

Just because you want to write RD doesn't mean you HAVE to avoid KT's work just so you can come up with your own ideas. Maybe something she said will spark an even greater idea in your head, or clarify one you already had. I was taught in art school to look at work of the past, see what people have done before. Use what you like and don't like to hone your own personal style and point of view.

Oh, and just because some one HASN'T read the Legacy series, doesn't make them less of a fan. There are a lot of SW books out there, and if you throw in working, surviving, occasionally sleeping, and costuming, it is easy to not get to reading a few books.  I would love to get to Legacy, but there are only so many hours in the day. ( AND they keep releasing NEW books for me to lust after....) Doesn't make me less of a Fett Fan, SW Fan, or even a Fan of KT.

This is why the boards are so nice. I happen to fully disagree with McCoy and RD. I really LOVE the Commando series, and her whole writing style. Yes i know i haven't ready Legacy, but i have read more than my fair share of other SW books. Some are just poorly written in my opinion. Others try WAY too hard to sound smart (reference the Coruscant Nights series [there are 3], they have pretentious vocabulary) I personally can't stand Kevin J. Anderson's style. Barbara Hambly's mediocre at best. Zahn always comes up with a solid well written work. Traviss, just is smooth and I RARELY get that emotionally involved with characters, maybe even people in real life. It's funny because I think there are  a lot of relatable situations and character's in the Republic Commando books, even though its still set in that galaxy far far away.

The thing is everyone has their own idea of what it means to be Mandalorian. Each of us brings a different part to it. And that I think is part of what KT has made it out to be. So even as we disagree, we are Mandalorian. And there are some things that will always be the same, whether one is for KT's thoughts on Mandalorians or a different view point. Obi Wan Kenobi agrees that things can be one thing and  another thing at the same time. It all depends on that "certain point of view".

Ours is the same. Fett is good, Mandalorians are killer.

Meat is murder...... tasty tasty murder.
"Suggestion: Electrocution works well. Evisceration and Decapitation are also effective, or um, so I've heard."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Croatian Pride wrote:

I think Karren Travis is great... She is really nice to her fans and writes the best SW books without competition... Though... I have to say I didnt read all SW books, but I have a hard time beliving there is someone better then her...

Please tell me you at least know who Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson are right? As for this whole new Boba spiel, I don't read KT books because I don't have time to and now there's probably too many to get caught up to. I'm more of a movie/Han Solo/BHW/Dark Forces Boba fan.

Re: Karen Traviss...

There are never too many books to "get caught up on". Just read what you want when you have time. I haven't read Legacy or all of NJO yet, but that doesn't mean i never will.

Just because you've read someones work, Like Anderson's  doesn't mean that I have to like him. He's not my favorite.

Meat is murder...... tasty tasty murder.
"Suggestion: Electrocution works well. Evisceration and Decapitation are also effective, or um, so I've heard."

Re: Karen Traviss...

all of those listed are amazing lucasbooks writers

and also, si tritan, theres always audio books smile time savers in traffic!

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

Re: Karen Traviss...

"Please tell me you at least know who Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson are right? As for this whole new Boba spiel, I don't read KT books because I don't have time to and now there's probably too many to get caught up to. I'm more of a movie/Han Solo/BHW/Dark Forces Boba fan."

Sure... They are great... But I like Travis better...

Ante Gotovina is a knight of valor in the dungeon of lies.

Re: Karen Traviss...

I was just reading on Facebook that Karen Traviss announced she wasn't doing any more Star Wars books after Imperial Commando #2 because of continuity issues with things in the second season of Clone Wars.  SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!

http://karentraviss.typepad.com/blog/20 … other.html


Anyone know any details of what she's talking about?  I can only assume it has something to do with the Mandalorians and Boba being in season 2 of the Clone Wars.  I hope we're not going to need another RetCon on the history of the Mandalorians or even the Fett man, himself.  Especially since he's supposed to be a character in the new Star Wars live action TV show.  Cross your fingers.

--Sadriel Fett (BFFC Moderator)
"I'm just a simple Fan, trying to make my way in the universe."

Re: Karen Traviss...

rather than clean up the canon that lucasarts is throwing a big wrench in with their season 2 of clone wars (you know, that show that does whatever the hell it wants and adds new & useless characters for no reason), KT decided she'd just bow out

I would too if someone crapped all over a dozen books I wrote for their universe

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."

148 (edited by Dravage Sunday, August 9, 2009 3:27 pm)

Re: Karen Traviss...

Sadriel_Fett wrote:

I was just reading on Facebook that Karen Traviss announced she wasn't doing any more Star Wars books after Imperial Commando #2 because of continuity issues with things in the second season of Clone Wars.  SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!

http://karentraviss.typepad.com/blog/20 … other.html


Anyone know any details of what she's talking about?  I can only assume it has something to do with the Mandalorians and Boba being in season 2 of the Clone Wars.  I hope we're not going to need another RetCon on the history of the Mandalorians or even the Fett man, himself.  Especially since he's supposed to be a character in the new Star Wars live action TV show.  Cross your fingers.

Here's another article on that:

http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/stor … 125555.asp

So don't worry haters. You dont have to read her anymore. I for one think she's made invaluable contributions to Mandalorian canon. Bloodlines is one of my favorite SW novels of all time and finding this article really upset me.

Re: Karen Traviss...

Sadly Bats lives in a little town tucked away in the Coast and I've never seen these Books
The Writer seems to have a Love and Hate with the Fans,,Boba having a soft touch I can't
really see that in him ...with my Tattoo I have the saying ''I Serve No One'' isn't that
the real Boba Fett,,my thinking with his Dad he just wanted someone to do the dirty work
for him ,as Jango to me was a selfish Man and Boba did love him or should I say loyal to
him Jango really didn't care for Boba.
    Bats

Re: Karen Traviss...

Oh, thank God! KT is going away! smile HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Though I must admit Clone Wars does kinda suck. Just like I said it would. Didn't I say this would happen? I did, didn't I. No one listened to me. But I was right, wasn't I? TV, so freely accessible. So much easier than reading. The new generation of fans will grow up stupid cause they'll see that and think it's canon when it's not. I felt sick when I heard Boba was going to be in it. He is, isn't he? I don't even want to know what horrible thing they do to him. The villain who always loses and comes back in the next one with some grand scheme that's foiled by the Super-Jedi. Well I hope you're all happy. You got what you wanted, and what I, and only one or two others, predicted.

Reality doesn't care if you believe in it.
[url]http://www.townparkradio.com[/url] - Video Game Remix Music