Re: The War in Iraq II

Actually no, Nazi Germany wasn't unstable, it was just led by a bunch of evil, manipulative maniacs. It only became unstable after they started to lose in WWII.

We don't need to stay in Iraq. There are plenty of countries with unstable governments that we could be worrying about, like Somalia, Chad, and Sudan, but we aren't trying to help them. That's because in the big picture of things, they don't matter to us. Oil is the world's most precious resource besides water, and Iraq and the rest of the Middle East is LOADED with it.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: The War in Iraq II

that's not why we're still in Iraq. we're still in Iraq so terrorists don't take over and make the country like it was when Saddam Hussein was in power.

Re: The War in Iraq II

I'd say in a way you're both right.

Appo's argument has been used by many to make the U.S. *and Bush especially* look like a pure evil machine that crushs any and all who dare oppose our need for oil or whatever.  Realisticly, yes, oil is part of the picture of why we're there.  Anybody with a car has see what a destablizing thing it is for our energy supply to be threatened *and one could note that since 'evil mister Bush' invaded Iraq our oil and gas situation hasn't exactly been the image of bliss... maybe some should realize that maybe there are other factors in play*. 

Fett_II is also very correct in that Iraq is in a region we can't allow to fall apart.  If extreamists or Iran take over Iraq when we leave, all the blood we've spent to get that country back on it's feet will have been for nothing, and we here at home and the free world at large would face a greater threat of terrorist attack then ever before.

Just mho

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: The War in Iraq II

There are other places in which we can get oil. And honestly, we are far to dependant on it. We really need to improve non-gas powered vehicles, AND make it so that their fuel is easily aquirable at any and every gas station.

We should've never meddled in Iraq in the first place. Bush wanted to go to Iraq even before 9/11 finished, and we could confirm bin Laden was behind it. He was just waiting for an excuse to go over there and finish what his dad started. Iraq is just another Vietnam. Same kind of deal, just different a country. Only Bush had kept things more hush-hush about Iraq so there wouldn't be major protesting.

Half Dragon, half human, 100% Fett!

80 (edited by Commander Appo Friday, February 27, 2009 3:49 am)

Re: The War in Iraq II

Iraq now has a stable government put in place by us, along with a military. It's up to them how to handle themselves. And I do not like Iran. Theocracies are my most hated form of government besides Nazis. It just doesn't work.

And I agree with Cecilia 100%.

And I don't think Bush is evil, I think Cheney is the one behind everything. He's the smart one. Bush was just a puppet in my opinion.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: The War in Iraq II

CeciliaCrimsondragonFett wrote:

There are other places in which we can get oil. And honestly, we are far to dependant on it. We really need to improve non-gas powered vehicles, AND make it so that their fuel is easily aquirable at any and every gas station.

The thing is we can never be completely independent of oil.  Plastic requires oil to be made.  It's involved in basically everything we do somehow.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

Re: The War in Iraq II

We may never be completely oil free, but there are things we can do to help. Such as improve hybrid and gas-free cars. People just don't drive them as much right now because hybrids are considered to be slow, as well as their non-gas fuel being hard to come by. Personally my favorite alternative fuel is hydrogen cell.

Half Dragon, half human, 100% Fett!

Re: The War in Iraq II

Sev Fett wrote:
CeciliaCrimsondragonFett wrote:

There are other places in which we can get oil. And honestly, we are far to dependant on it. We really need to improve non-gas powered vehicles, AND make it so that their fuel is easily aquirable at any and every gas station.

The thing is we can never be completely independent of oil.  Plastic requires oil to be made.  It's involved in basically everything we do somehow.

And that's the thing that scares me. People don't really understand how important hydrocarbons are to almost everything we do and enjoy in life.

This is such a big deal that back in the 70s, when there was an oil embargo Hasbro, some of us are old enough to remember. stopped making G.I. Joe because the cost of petrochemicals became too high to produce Joe. No fooling. That's why the Adventure team ended and the Super Joe series, at a sorry eight inches, appeared. It also accounts to some extent to the diminutive stature of action figures in general since the  mid 70s until the mid 90s when Hasbro started producing 12" figures again.

Plastic IS oil (period)! That means when we shift from fossil fuels to renewable sources the world is going to change in ways few of us can imagine. 

On the other hand, it IS going to happen eventually. But just think of a world without SW figures! Or lawn furniture or anything that is made from plastic.

As a former anthropologist I would say that war. oil and religion are responsible for the way two or three generations of Americans have lived for the past four decades. (The television was only invented six decades ago and in those days they were huge wooden boxes!)

When we leave Iraq the Shias WILL take the country back with the help of Iran. It is insane to think that just because you change the surface of the society that it will effect the structure of the culture.  I think we as Americans are pretty stupid to think that if we bring our culture and way of life to others that they will act like we do.  If Bush/ Cheney screwed up anywhere it was in thinking that the people of Iraq are "just like us"  deep inside. The BS that Americans buy into about raising the standard of living in other countries will also bring westernization is delusional. Freedom DOES NOT mean the same thing to everyone everywhere.

Man! I love SW figures. I just wish Hasbro had not bought out Kenner...but I guess that's for another thread.

"D'oh!"
[url=http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/galleries/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=1624]My Fan Art[/url]

Re: The War in Iraq II

tachyonblade wrote:

(The television was only invented six decades ago and in those days they were huge wooden boxes!).

A big ole fake wood box with a teeeeny tiny screen to watch on! I remember when I was little that the TV we had since at least when I was born til I was 8 or so our TV was a wood panel faily small TV lolold. At least it was in colour though! The REALLY old TV we had for gaming then was all black and white. And now we have a giant, HDTV over 40 inches long thats less then a year old. Its fascinating how rapidly technology is going (telegraph, radio, black and white TV, colour TV, HD/Plasma TV). 20 years ago our computer had a tiny moniter, with very little things to do on that computer. And no colour, just black and yellow (not even green like how you'd see on old TV shows and movies. Black and a single shade of yellow!). Now I am using something that is flat, portable, can do hundreds of different things (games to writing to webcam to music) with God knows how many colours (skys the limit I guess!).

It is foolish to belive every country will behave the same. Even with democracy, Iraq and Afghanistan will NEVER be like the United States. Our cultures are just so radically different. Theres just no way we'll be able to get the different religious sects to get along. This is the best Iraq is going to get. If theres any place we should be concerned about, its Afghanistan. Which no one has hardly paid attention to since we invaded Iraq. The terrorists that came up with, and came to, the US to fly airplanes into buildings didn't come from Iraq. And the US is still vunerable to attack if anyone so desires. It took foriegn terrorists to show us how vunerable we are (we had homegrown terrorists in the 90's and we didn't do a thing to take another look at security...shameful).

Half Dragon, half human, 100% Fett!

Re: The War in Iraq II

CeciliaCrimsondragonFett wrote:
tachyonblade wrote:

(The television was only invented six decades ago and in those days they were huge wooden boxes!).

A big ole fake wood box with a teeeeny tiny screen to watch on! I remember when I was little that the TV we had since at least when I was born til I was 8 or so our TV was a wood panel faily small TV lolold. At least it was in colour though! The REALLY old TV we had for gaming then was all black and white. And now we have a giant, HDTV over 40 inches long thats less then a year old. Its fascinating how rapidly technology is going (telegraph, radio, black and white TV, colour TV, HD/Plasma TV). 20 years ago our computer had a tiny moniter, with very little things to do on that computer. And no colour, just black and yellow (not even green like how you'd see on old TV shows and movies. Black and a single shade of yellow!). Now I am using something that is flat, portable, can do hundreds of different things (games to writing to webcam to music) with God knows how many colours (skys the limit I guess!).

It is foolish to belive every country will behave the same. Even with democracy, Iraq and Afghanistan will NEVER be like the United States. Our cultures are just so radically different. Theres just no way we'll be able to get the different religious sects to get along. This is the best Iraq is going to get. If theres any place we should be concerned about, its Afghanistan. Which no one has hardly paid attention to since we invaded Iraq. The terrorists that came up with, and came to, the US to fly airplanes into buildings didn't come from Iraq. And the US is still vunerable to attack if anyone so desires. It took foriegn terrorists to show us how vunerable we are (we had homegrown terrorists in the 90's and we didn't do a thing to take another look at security...shameful).

See, that's just the joke of it, to think we have it all figured out. It's the same with the evolution thread.

What I have learned in my time as an anthropologist are the following two things.

1.) Everyone, everywhere, thinks their way of seeing the world is the correct way of seeing the world.
2.) Nothing anyone says will really change they way another person sees the world.

"D'oh!"
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Re: The War in Iraq II

Look...guys... these poeple have been at war with themselves for over 1130 years...we can't help them...its just not possible...we should pull out our troops and shut our boaders and stay out of there...thats my OTHER opinion

calvinanglin@gmail.com

Re: The War in Iraq II

If we pull out, that vacuum will be replaced by Radical Muslims and it will be a gigantic problem.

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
I am a Role Playing Gamer, like my father before me.

Re: The War in Iraq II

They have a stable government and military. You act like as soon as we leave they will go right back to where they were before. Then we would have to be there forever.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: The War in Iraq II

Commander Appo wrote:

They have a stable government and military. You act like as soon as we leave they will go right back to where they were before. Then we would have to be there forever.

There is nothing stable about their government or military. They wouldnt be going back to the way they were because Radical Muslims werent in Iraq before because Saddam was keeping them out. They werent in Afganistan either until we showed up and gave them another reason to hate Americans, giving way for the RM's to enter.

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
I am a Role Playing Gamer, like my father before me.

Re: The War in Iraq II

Look, if you don't won't to pull the troops out, you should let them do thier job, and their job is to kill the enemy. Soldiers are trained to kill...to fight. Soldiers make peace by killing the enemy, or scaring the crap of them, so the can't fight.
If we really want to take care of these terrorist we have to kill them. I know I sound like I am blood thuirsty, but its true.
If we want to catch Osama, we must be able to kill his bodyguards.

calvinanglin@gmail.com

Re: The War in Iraq II

Karson Fett wrote:

Look, if you don't won't to pull the troops out, you should let them do thier job, and their job is to kill the enemy. Soldiers are trained to kill...to fight. Soldiers make peace by killing the enemy, or scaring the crap of them, so the can't fight.
If we really want to take care of these terrorist we have to kill them. I know I sound like I am blood thuirsty, but its true.
If we want to catch Osama, we must be able to kill his bodyguards.

I totally agree. The real problem with the war is the way it has been orchestrated. We have been going about it half-heartedly because we don't want to see Americans lose their lives.

My personal opinion is that we should have let things be and not invaded Iraq but if we are going to do it we should have gone in full force and  not allowed the radical islamic element to surface.

After we are gone Iraq will fall into a civil war. I am not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, I mean we had a civil war too. It happens. People have been killing each other since we developed thumbs. But for Americans or the west in general to believe that just because we took out Saddam that suddenly Iraq was going to turn into a free and open democracy overnight is just naive. Right now there are several different factions of Iraqis just waiting to be let loose from under the thumb of the US occupation (and it's not ONLY Islamic extremists). They are just itching to start firing RPGs into their neighbor's yards. And actually it has been this way in that region for at least the past three to four thousand years or so depending on where you want to draw a line historically.

"D'oh!"
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Re: The War in Iraq II

If we didn't want to see young Americans lose thier lives, we wouldn't be sitting around and leting these terrorist live, the best way to prevent death is to KILL the cause of the death. I'm sorry but it takes people to fight wars. Sometimes people get killed, we can't help that. People DIE at war; thats why nobody likes war.
   If nobody died...then we would just have wars all the time...and the world would be made of marshmellows...if we want to win...so to speak...there have to be more people killed on THEIR side...which means some of us are going to die...Nobody wants to die...but its a risk you take when you join the Armed Forces...if there was no risk...they would let anybody in the Army...but thier is..people die at war...

calvinanglin@gmail.com

Re: The War in Iraq II

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090308/ap_ … ea/ml_iraq

Obama really is an idiot.

Re: The War in Iraq II

Because he wants to remove soldiers from a place that they get killed in? Yeah, stupid idea.....

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: The War in Iraq II

Commander Appo wrote:

Because he wants to remove soldiers from a place that they get killed in? Yeah, stupid idea.....

Because he's taking soldiers out of a place that isn't stable, still violent, still corrupt, and overall the worth of those soldiers that have died will have been for nothing. The last six years = waste of time, money, and complete **** now

96 (edited by Valthonin Sunday, March 8, 2009 9:19 am)

Re: The War in Iraq II

Fett_II wrote:
Commander Appo wrote:

Because he wants to remove soldiers from a place that they get killed in? Yeah, stupid idea.....

Because he's taking soldiers out of a place that isn't stable, still violent, still corrupt, and overall the worth of those soldiers that have died will have been for nothing. The last six years = waste of time, money, and complete **** now

He's starting the gradual pull of Americans out of Iraq. Do you expect them to stay there forever?

Theres 135,000 US troops in Iraq and only 12,000 are being taking slowly out until Fall. He's doing what he SHOULD be doing. al-Qaida and terroist support actually GROWS with the Americans there because hate for the US develops more with American troops being there.

The troops cant just be yanked out, because like I said that vacuum will be filled by Radical Muslims. It needs to be gradual, and it needs to be started as soon as possible.

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
I am a Role Playing Gamer, like my father before me.

Re: The War in Iraq II

That's exactly what I was thinking.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: The War in Iraq II

Iraq is not going to get better. We should have NEVER gone there in the first place. There were never any weapons of mass destruction. Bush rushed us in there before the UN could even get a real look around because he knew his one excuse would be gone fast. Bush wanted to invade Iraq even before the details of 9/11 were fully known. He only wanted to finish what his dad started, something that Clinton wisely stopped in the first place.

Half Dragon, half human, 100% Fett!

Re: The War in Iraq II

I agree Iraq is not a problem we can fix. Iraq itself is actually a British fabrication. Further, we had no business being there anyway.

A man's worst enemy can't wish on him what he can think up himself. Yiddish saying

Re: The War in Iraq II

Its a problem, yes, but Ibelieve if we pull out the Media, and let the troops KILL we could gain control over Iraq much quicker.

But if we had never have gone there, there would be no problem and many american would still be alive.

calvinanglin@gmail.com