Re: Karen Traviss...

Well, I have to say her portrayal of the Clones is probably my favorite part of her work; either them or the INDIVIDUAL Mandos like Skirata and Vau *so far as I've read at least.*  I think she's made the rank and file clones too human, and I think she focuses too much on the injustice of their service and existence, but the Commandos and the Nulls have been portrayed pretty well as far as I'm concerned, as they were supposed to be more human/complete. 

However, again, she doesn't make the distinction between these few and the masses of standard clones who were meant to be less capable.

And most importantly for me, it's the direction she's taking the Mandalorian culture itself

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Your concerned that they are being portrayed as less war like or 'soft', Correct?

But wouldent it be kinda boring to write about a bunch of emotionless, cold hearted men running around and killing a bunch of stuff? I'm no writer myself, but to make it an intresting read, the characters need have some motive besides money...Right?

And you must consider that not all humans in the Mando'ade culture are the same, and that they themselves may start to see themselves in a different light, and over time go down the path Karen Traviss is building for them...

Does that make any sense?

[i]"Sir, Finishing this Cake."[/i]

Re: Karen Traviss...

Love how she did Vau and Kal, Bevinn's cool. I like how she's done the Mando culture. Love the Nulls and Commandos, and their personality makes sense as they were given more individuality.

Troopers...I don't remember how much she's done them. But I see what you're saying, Ralin. They do have more personality than I'd expect. Not as bad as the Clone Wars, though. Died hair, tatoos, etc? Thats just AWFUL.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Re: Karen Traviss...

Werda Verd wrote:

Not as bad as the Clone Wars, though. Died hair, tatoos, etc? Thats just AWFUL.

I know, I hate that.

Reality doesn't care if you believe in it.
[url]http://www.townparkradio.com[/url] - Video Game Remix Music

Re: Karen Traviss...

maybe the Tatoos...But the hairstyles arnt that big a deal.

[i]"Sir, Finishing this Cake."[/i]

Re: Karen Traviss...

Mandal_ShadowWarrior wrote:

Your concerned that they are being portrayed as less war like or 'soft', Correct?

But wouldent it be kinda boring to write about a bunch of emotionless, cold hearted men running around and killing a bunch of stuff? I'm no writer myself, but to make it an intresting read, the characters need have some motive besides money...Right?

And you must consider that not all humans in the Mando'ade culture are the same, and that they themselves may start to see themselves in a different light, and over time go down the path Karen Traviss is building for them...

Well, yes and no about the reasons for my concern with KT's handling of the Mando'ade.

I have based my conceptions of the Mandalorians from what I've seen thus far from KotOR, and the overviews of their actions from all the source books I've been able to get my hands on.

I'm not concerned at all that they are being given emotions and that there are some Non-cold hearted bastards in their ranks - they're human *generally; sentient beings lets say,* variety happens.  In fact, I have to say that the reports I've heard about Boba and his more human side havn't really been a turn off to me at all.  I've always held the same belief that Boba held onto whatever Mando'ade teachings Jango had taught him, and that Honoring Jango would have been one of his primary motivators in life.  My only concern right now would be the rumors if individual actions that don't sound like Fett at all.

HOWEVER, variety WOULD be limited in the ranks of the Mando'ade imho.  As we all know, Mandalorians are Not a race, they are a culture/mind-set.  If you don't like the way the Mando'ade roll, you're free to bail and Not be one anymore.  That being said, I don't see where the turning point is where the Mando'ade turned from war seeking and *in their own interpretation* Honor boud warriors to 'just normal people' as KT seems to write about them.  Maybe this is a failing on my part and is made clear in the Mandalorian Civil War comics *Open Seasons right?  still need to find that...*   


Yes, your argument makes a great deal of sense, and is the one KT has subscribed herself to it would seem.  I'm just afraid that I can't say I see it the same way based on my observations and preconcieved notions about the Mando'ade.  Hope my argument on the matter is just as clear and makes some sense

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

you have to understand that the mandalorians went through changes during the mandalorian civil war.

you like the KOTOR mandalorians, and that is fine, they changed and evolved into what is now known as the death watch

the "true" mandalorians now, after mandalore jaster mereel, are more hired mercenaries than bloodthirsty killers
karen is essentially just taking jango's hopes of boba fett becoming jaster's legacy and having him help to shape the fate of the mando'ade in that way, rather than trying to conquer the galaxy

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so." - Lucas McCoy

Re: Karen Traviss...

Well, that's what I was saying that I haven't read Open Seasons yet.  However, nothing pains me more then to lay the fate of the Mando'ade on a comic...  I'll have to get my hands on that series and figure out what I think about it

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

it just explains why jaster changed the whole mentality of the mandalorians of this new era
the old ways are gone because he realized that theyll never accomplish anything trying to take over the galaxy

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so." - Lucas McCoy

85 (edited by FettFan79 Friday, January 9, 2009 3:51 pm)

Re: Karen Traviss...

And remember, that the Mandalorians are now (in the Legacy era, I mean) trying to rebuild their homeworld after the Vong, and with that might come some changes to their society--that, I think, is what KT is expanding on.

Open Seasons is a great comic series, and gives a lot of insight to Jango's past.

"Train your sons to be strong, but your daughters to be stronger."--Karen Traviss, Bloodlines

Re: Karen Traviss...

she turns everybody into fluffy hobbits in armour.oooing over baby waby and bleating about their family.she did not invent fetts family but she did go overboard about his emotional involvment.her fett is so different from jesters hes a totally different person.im writing some fanfics about reall hard case mando mercinaries who dont have families and dont want any either.too long to be put in the creative section here.

SF is what life is all about.

Re: Karen Traviss...

ill have to read the mando civil war comic.ive never heard of it and wondered who all these deathwatch people are.culturally they remind me the most of the spartans.in true colours the kamino scientist said something interesting.that the mandalorians practice genetic manipulation upon themselves by selective breeding.they are very much connected by blood relations but also they adopt alot and bring in people who have the right stuff.they seem to have changed a lot since the glory days of their alliance with the sith.there must be some mandalorians who dont go out shooting people and just have jobs in keldabe.in reall life every military orginisation has a dark past.they are there to do what politicians tell them to do.so if they get told to kill everybody in a village any army would obey the order and has done.

SF is what life is all about.

Re: Karen Traviss...

Stone Mando wrote:

she turns everybody into fluffy hobbits in armour.oooing over baby waby and bleating about their family.she did not invent fetts family but she did go overboard about his emotional involvment.her fett is so different from jesters hes a totally different person.im writing some fanfics about reall hard case mando mercinaries who dont have families and dont want any either.too long to be put in the creative section here.

if mandalorians didnt have families, then theyd have no one to defend their planet and culture in the next generation
sure, some may not want children, doesn't mean they wouldnt have any if the situation arose where they had to adopt one of their fellow vode's children if they died

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so." - Lucas McCoy

Re: Karen Traviss...

i hate families.

SF is what life is all about.

Re: Karen Traviss...

Stone Mando wrote:

i hate families.

I truly hope that sentiment does not extent to your own!
I think that might be taking things a bit too far but I tend to have a similar dislike for the over elaboration of the Mando culture and the key role that a once minor character has come to play in it and the rest of the galaxy.

One of the things that bugs me about Traviss' work is her heavy british "tone of voice" that pervades her novels. Nothing against the Brits or the way they speak it's just that at times characters say things that I can't really hear them saying if the story were part of the six films.

Does anyone else know what I am talking about here? There are just certain turns of phrase that no one in the films did or would have used.   However, this criticism extends to a lot of the novels, especially the main characters and the way they are handled by different authors.  I know these characters are older and growing and evolving but some of them are becoming so bland that they are not even interesting to read anymore.

Anyway, personally I have the hardest time getting through Traviss' books than any other SW author, such as T. Denning's or K.J. Anderson's.

"D'oh!"
[url=http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/galleries/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=1624]My Fan Art[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

Stone Mando wrote:

i hate families.

not a very mandalorian statement

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so." - Lucas McCoy

Re: Karen Traviss...

BFFC therealmccoy wrote:
Stone Mando wrote:

i hate families.

not a very mandalorian statement

Yeah I agree. Especially since that is what the BFFC is for me in many ways.

"D'oh!"
[url=http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/galleries/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=1624]My Fan Art[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

I like her for the most part, 'cause I have enjoyed reading her RC novels... but... isn't it true that prior to writing Hard Contact she had NO prior knowledge of Star Wars whatsoever? Like, she wasn't even a fan?

That just sorta bothers me... and how much power she has over the Mandalorians and Boba Fett's fate is just sort of unnerving...

-BFFC Manji aka Jess

Re: Karen Traviss...

Stone Mando wrote:

i hate families.

ummm...wow.

does someone think he was spontaneously spawned from super-tough bad@$$ inducing primordial ooze?

jeez...

"Kom'rk tsad droten troch nyn ures adenn, Dha Werda Verda a'den tratu."
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Re: Karen Traviss...

virulent_messiah wrote:
Stone Mando wrote:

i hate families.

ummm...wow.

does someone think he was spontaneously spawned from super-tough bad@$$ inducing primordial ooze?

jeez...

Yeah, what he said!

"D'oh!"
[url=http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/galleries/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=1624]My Fan Art[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

Manji_Ninja wrote:

I like her for the most part, 'cause I have enjoyed reading her RC novels... but... isn't it true that prior to writing Hard Contact she had NO prior knowledge of Star Wars whatsoever? Like, she wasn't even a fan?

That just sorta bothers me... and how much power she has over the Mandalorians and Boba Fett's fate is just sort of unnerving...

ya but they wanted it to be that way
they wanted those books to be more squad-military based

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so." - Lucas McCoy

Re: Karen Traviss...

I thought KT was brilliant in her portrayal of the RC's. The fact that she had experience with the military herself helped a lot...

At least least I THINK i remember hearing something about her having  experience with the military ...

anyway...

"Kom'rk tsad droten troch nyn ures adenn, Dha Werda Verda a'den tratu."
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Re: Karen Traviss...

she didnt

but she did her homework
from an interview i did with ray ramirez:

Tell us what you can about your relationship and history with Karen Traviss. How did you originally meet her and become involved with her work on Mandalorian language, culture, and technology? To what degree are you still involved?

This is a long one. Well, I was deployed to Iraq in 2004 and the Republic Commando game was still in development. I'd try to keep up with news about the game every so often because it sounded like something really different and I was looking forward to seeing what kind of military detail was going to be in the game play. I found out that Lucas Books was having a tie in novel written for around the release time, and it was called "Hard Contact" and was going to be written by Karen Traviss, it would focus on the special operations aspect of the conflict between the Separatists and the Republic. I remember thinking to myself "How on earth is this woman going to know anything about Special Ops Troopers and make it sound convincing". I ordered the book anyway but didn't get to read it until I got home in January of 2005. WOW, was I wrong. It was not only the best soldier story I'd read in a long time, it was the best Star Wars story I'd read in a long time. I'd say I've read about 90+ % of the SW novels that have come out since Timothy Zhan started it all with the "Heir of The Empire" series, and this one really stuck with me long after I had read it mainly because I had just spent a year in combat on a 4-man sniper team, and the RC's operated in 4 man teams and I could directly relate to some of the events in the book through personal combat experience. Then a few months later, I received an Insider Magazine and I saw on the cover that there was a short Republic Commando Omega Squad story written by Karen Traviss. I got really happy and went straight to the story. Again I was thoroughly impressed with the level of detail in tactics and realism she brought to the Star Wars universe. She also introduced Kal Skirata, and you know as well as I do that any Mando fan loves Kal'buir. After reading those stories, I was left feeling appreciated. I remember thinking, "This woman really took the time and invested the energy to find the little details about what soldiers do, and she worked hard to get it right. It shone through in her writing and I felt like I had to say thank you for that. She knew what it was REALLY like.
I decided to write a letter to the Star Wars Insider Magazine and I asked them to thank her for me for taking the time to get things right, and for bringing the realism that the Star Wars universe needed when it came to dealing with soldiers. I was surprised to see they printed my letter in the next issue of the Insider. It was the first time I had ever written to any publication of any kind, and there was my letter. They had passed on my thanks. A week or so later I got an email from the Star Wars fan club saying that Karen was trying to contact me. For some reason I wasn't getting her email traffic but she sent me a letter in the regular mail, and then her email situation got ironed out and we were able to correspond through email. We've been really good friends ever since, and she has really been a source of support and guidance for me over the last few years.

After a month or so of talking Star Wars and military life, and everything else, she told me she was working on the sequel to Hard Contact, called Triple Zero, and she asked me to read through the book and to give my opinion on the sniper scenes. That's when we talked about the ballistics and tactics and kit, and the Verp sniper rifle was born. I added my two cents and she went with it. She asked if I could be a beta tester for Mando'a when she was developing it. When she sent me the list it was only a couple hundred words long. You could have a conversation with it to a degree but it lacked a lot of the military words. I just helped to fill in a few tiny gaps. I [have] helped a few times here and there since then. My expertise is at her disposal.

more here:
http://bobafett.com/news/spotlight/ram-zerimar/

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so." - Lucas McCoy

Re: Karen Traviss...

She served in the Territorial Army and the Royal Naval Auxiliary Service in Great Britain.  But she also was a journalist and defense correspondent, so she's had alot of other experience with the military outside of that.  Plus, like RealMcCoy posted above, she's got a lot of military friends that help her out with some of the more technical aspects, which is really cool.  I think that's why a lot of military like her books, because we're used  to using acronyms and slang like that all the time.  Plus, the RC books just read like something a military person nowadays experiences with their comrades and it has that mindset about it.  So, it's very good reading for us, you know?  I would imagine even more so, if you're in the Marines or Army.

--Sadriel Fett (BFFC Moderator)
"I'm just a simple Fan, trying to make my way in the universe."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Sadriel_Fett wrote:

She served in the Territorial Army and the Royal Naval Auxiliary Service in Great Britain.  But she also was a journalist and defense correspondent, so she's had alot of other experience with the military outside of that.  Plus, like RealMcCoy posted above, she's got a lot of military friends that help her out with some of the more technical aspects, which is really cool.  I think that's why a lot of military like her books, because we're used  to using acronyms and slang like that all the time.  Plus, the RC books just read like something a military person nowadays experiences with their comrades and it has that mindset about it.  So, it's very good reading for us, you know?  I would imagine even more so, if you're in the Marines or Army.

Exactly my point, thanx Sadriel.

In conclusion...KT rocks!

"Kom'rk tsad droten troch nyn ures adenn, Dha Werda Verda a'den tratu."
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