Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

There is no excuse. We solve things of our own to show that we know nothing. Faith is not easy, I had that problem for awhile; borderlined on it. If there is no proof of God; then answer this: Who created the microorganisms we are supposedly descended from.

"I swear by the soul I don't have, I am going to kill you."
―Boba Fett

77 (edited by Commander Appo Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:28 pm)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

That was already solved, actually. Amino acids and other chemicals along with a powerful energy source, such a lightning had a reaction which created life.

I think someone actually conducted an experiment which proved this. I gotta find a link...

EDIT: Aha! I have found it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_experiment

They created organic matter out of unorganic matter by using a bunch of different chemicals/elements present on the Earth back when life began.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Science said there is no such thing as spontaneous life...

"I swear by the soul I don't have, I am going to kill you."
―Boba Fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Commander Appo wrote:

That was already solved, actually. Amino acids and other chemicals along with a powerful energy source, such a lightning had a reaction which created life.

I think someone actually conducted an experiment which proved this. I gotta find a link...

EDIT: Aha! I have found it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_experiment

They created organic matter out of unorganic matter by using a bunch of different chemicals/elements present on the Earth back when life began.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/UreyMillerExperiment.jpeg
yeah, that really looks like something Pre-Life earth had on hand    tongue

but joking aside, that didn't SOLVE that question.  The debate is still out on it, even if the extreme Evolution wing of science *wich is......yeah, about 95% of the scientific community if I heard correctly......the polar opposite of the worlds population ironically enough* says it is.

I have heard of that experiment, and I'm pretty sure it's NOT a solid piece of work.  If somebody with better search skills them myself could help me find the other side of this one I'd appreciate it

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Commander Appo wrote:
Ralin Drakus wrote:

You think Faith is an easy choice??  That it's the "in Thing"??  If you do you've been living in a hole for the last few hundred years.  I don't believe because Evolution is just too complicated and because I'd like to just asume some greater being came and did all this with a wave of his hand.  I Believe because I don't want this to be all there is to life, and when taught with clearity and understanding, I felt Christianity was not the 'mystic, no science all faith' BS that many claim it to be

Faith is more comlicated then Evolution. You have to trust in some invisible man with the power to do absolutely anything even though there is no proof he exists. Seriously.....wtf?

Why would you like to believe that some "greater being" came and did this all with a wave of his hand? Kinda makes us seem completely insignifigant...

And even if God exists, why doesn't he ever help anyone out? Why didn't he save all of those people in 9/11? Why doesn't he purge the world of evil so that we can all live in peace? And don't tell me he wants us to solve it on our own. That's just an excuse.

I agree with Val. I am someone who believes in facts, not faith. I like to have some actual proof about something before I believe in it.

I do accept that God is a possibility, but the facts point to Evolution.

Faith is not an easy choice but there are only two options.  You either believe in a God, or you don't simple as that.   But the choice in itself isn't as simple.  Somehow that made sense.

Commander Appo wrote:

Why would you like to believe that some "greater being" came and did this all with a wave of his hand? Kinda makes us seem completely insignifigant...

And us living in a world that has supposedly existed over a billion years doesn't? 

Commander Appo wrote:

And even if God exists, why doesn't he ever help anyone out? Why didn't he save all of those people in 9/11? Why doesn't he purge the world of evil so that we can all live in peace? And don't tell me he wants us to solve it on our own. That's just an excuse.

So here you've been protesting God over and over yet when something bad happens it's all His fault?  Assuming God is real he gave His son to man.  God gave us free will to choose because creating something like a robot dog that only loves you isn't quite as satisfying as training that puppy with loving and nurturing and then to have it returned. He also gave us independence but now we have shoved that right back in his face.  God said if no one prays then He will do nothing.  So you assume that those did pray in their final hours are not now in a much better place and have received salvation that has been offered.  And of course there are those who claim to have been 'helped' by some other force to find the exit etc.  We choose whether or not to return His love.  That is a kind of love that I don't think you can quite comprehend.  I can't even begin to understand it.   

And another thing.  Where are these transitional forms the fossil records are referring too?  We still do not have one indisputable evidence.  Val's article states that these transitional forms have been found.  But none of them are listed.

And Appo the Miller-Urey experiment has been rejected by geochemists for quite some time now.  The experiment assumes that there was no free oxygen in the atmosphere at the beginning of time.  But evidence has pointed to the fact that there was.  It also started with an incorrect mixture of elements.

So this discussion is almost utterly pointless as there will almost always be one fact or another that will reject the other except for the thoughts based on faith.  Apparently we are quite set in our beliefs.    Obviously creationism is based on the principles of faith while evolutionists claim it was based on facts.  Both evolution and creation rely on faith to believe their point of view as their is no solid evidence to back either again a matter of perspective.  Please don't come back saying evolution is based on fact because somewhere I'll find something that may contradict what you say.  And then you will either find my source faulty or come up with another fact etc etc.  So it all comes down to faith. 

And again I'm not here to try to convert anyone, just trying to express my point of view.  So I'm sorry if I offended you in whatever I said.  And Appo, please don't go and slander Christianity when you don't have a sufficient understanding of its base principles.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

I agree with you Sev. I didn't want to get into this, but I will say one or two quick things. I agree with RD's joke about the experiment. Sure, they may have created SOME of the proteins necessary to create amino acids for life (or something like that) but the conditions they simulated are most likely inaccurate, as they do not know what the climate was like back then. No one alive now does. And, that partially successful lab experiment took design. Intelligent people designed it. It did not come from nowhere. That's the irony.
     And, someone said the Big Bang came from nothing, and someone else retorted that it actually came from, not nothing, but a small compressed form. Where did that small compressed form come from? If you don't know, but you believe that's how the world began, that is faith by definition. Evolution is a faith at its base, if what this commenter said is true (am I wrong?).

"Some soldiers say that to reach maximum combat efficiency, they need to be in the zone. Sir; I live in the zone." - RC 1207 'Sev' to RC 1138 'Boss'

82 (edited by Commander Appo Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:34 am)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

The Universe goes on and on forever. It never ends, as far as we know. How can one being, even if he is supernatural, watch over something that never ends?  He'd be helping endless planets, which makes no sense because then he'd never have time to give Jesus to us or anything.

Even if God is real, does he watch over just Earth? Then where is he? Invisible? In medieval times we believed that God existed in the clouds up in the sky, in Heaven. Now we know that nothings there.

And we know what the center of the Earth is like. There is no Hell or Satan, just a Mantle, an Outer core, and an Inner Core. So Hell or Heaven can't be real.

Science is based on FACT, which means humans have proof that things exist. Faith is based on FAITH, which means that there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF.

People who are on the side of faith always argue about how Evolution is wrong, but they can't say anything to supporty their faith because of the lack of proof that God exists.

And Sev, I never said that if anything bad happens that it's his fault. I just said he never helps us.

And when did I slander Christianity?

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

I believe in God. smile

[i]In my book, experience outranks everything...[/i]

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

You never did answer my question. Science "proved" that there was no spontaneus life but it needs it to prove evolution. The experiment you showed was some one tring to prove that there was spontaneus life; not evolution. God is ultimate, he can watch over every thing in a short amount of time. People once believed there was nothing beyond the clouds. That was false. There is something beyond space as well. Hell can be described as a burning place of which no being can escape...if you were stuck in the mantle or core, would you not agree? Also, planets die on their own, look at Venus. Science says it once was alive, as well as Mars. Maybe God sent Jesus to them during their time, and no fossils exist because of a different atmosphere than Earth.

"I swear by the soul I don't have, I am going to kill you."
―Boba Fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Commander Appo wrote:

The Universe goes on and on forever. It never ends, as far as we know. How can one being, even if he is supernatural, watch over something that never ends?  He'd be helping endless planets, which makes no sense because then he'd never have time to give Jesus to us or anything.

Even if God is real, does he watch over just Earth? Then where is he? Invisible? In medieval times we believed that God existed in the clouds up in the sky, in Heaven. Now we know that nothings there.

And we know what the center of the Earth is like. There is no Hell or Satan, just a Mantle, an Outer core, and an Inner Core. So Hell or Heaven can't be real.

Science is based on FACT, which means humans have proof that things exist. Faith is based on FAITH, which means that there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF.

People who are on the side of faith always argue about how Evolution is wrong, but they can't say anything to supporty their faith because of the lack of proof that God exists.

And Sev, I never said that if anything bad happens that it's his fault. I just said he never helps us.

And when did I slander Christianity?

Sorry I guess I used slander a bit too loosely.  Again you have demonstrated a misunderstanding of Christianity.  So you believe Heaven and Hell are physical realms?  Believing in God gives a whole new element to everything you know.  The realm where principalities of the air live.

You also assume that there is life on other planets.  I have interpreted that differently from the Bible.  God created the entire universe for us so as we could worship Him.

Keep in mind we are both using the same facts.  Fossil Evidence, geology etc etc.  But it all comes down to your presupposition, that is how you interpret the facts.  Your presupposition is that there is no God and science is fact.  My presupposition is that the Bible provides enough proof for me to interpret the facts.  I found a bible verse that sums up what I believe.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Hebrews 11:1 KJV

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Commander Appo wrote:

And we know what the center of the Earth is like. There is no Hell or Satan, just a Mantle, an Outer core, and an Inner Core. So Hell or Heaven can't be real.

HAHA!  now that's funny.....

You took the cartoon version of hell and use it to prove there is no God?  I understand that there are some sects of the Christian faith that still believe that, but that's NOT the overwhelming opinion on the matter.

I always find it entertaining when you hear the 'scientific community' and it's supporters who are supposed to be the MOST open minded, and that their duty as scientists is to NEVER, EVER, rule out a possability OR ACCEPT one until it had been proven scientifically one way or another.  Appo, you've said over and over again we can't see him, we have no proof...  If you take aside the fulfilled prophecies from the Bible, one of the more recent being the rebirth of an independent Israel, then yeah, then the phisical proof FOR Christianity is pretty thin.  HOWEVER, how is it openmindedness to trash it out of hand? 

As to where is God and Satan, there's lots of theories, just as there's inumberable thoughts on where the 'missing links' are.  I have been taught that they reside within a seperate dimension right here among us; that this other dimension explains the movements of Jesus after the Crusifiction *and if want to call me insane, scientists continue to debate the existance of other dimentions.  When they don't think Religion has anything to do with it, they suddenly seen open to the wildest of ideas....*  Satan, as I have been taught, is ironically enough in Heaven, under lock and key under the personal guard of.............is it Michael or Gabrial...........I don't remember which, but he is to be kept there until Judgement

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

"...Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe" -Jesus Christ

calvinanglin@gmail.com | Dei voluntas fiat
I seek to knowledge to share it.

88 (edited by Commander Appo Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:16 pm)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Ralin Drakus wrote:
Commander Appo wrote:

And we know what the center of the Earth is like. There is no Hell or Satan, just a Mantle, an Outer core, and an Inner Core. So Hell or Heaven can't be real.

HAHA!  now that's funny.....

I always find it entertaining when you hear the 'scientific community' and it's supporters who are supposed to be the MOST open minded, and that their duty as scientists is to NEVER, EVER, rule out a possability OR ACCEPT one until it had been proven scientifically one way or another.  Appo, you've said over and over again we can't see him, we have no proof...  If you take aside the fulfilled prophecies from the Bible, one of the more recent being the rebirth of an independent Israel, then yeah, then the phisical proof FOR Christianity is pretty thin.  HOWEVER, how is it openmindedness to trash it out of hand?

HAHA! now that's funny....

You say the scientific community isn't open-minded? Try and tell someone religious that God isn't real, they'll be so set that God is real that they won't even think about what the are being told or take into consideration what they are being told, at least in my experience.

The scientific community is will actually change what they think as they learn new things. Before Darwin, scientists didn't even know what Evolution was. As you said, 95% of scientists lean towards Evolution, ehich means that they DO accept new theories, unlike in religion where people are told that THIS is the way it happened. They don't do any research to try and prove that they are correct, they just assume that
Awhatever they believe in is right.

And stop cramming words in my mouth. I never used the "cartoon" versions of Heaven and Hell to say God wasn't real. I SAID SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

And when did I ever trash or slander Christianity? I don't lie or anything about Christianity. I am not saying this because I am misinformed.

When you said I used the "cartoon" versons of Heaven and Hell, I used them because people used to believe that Hell was located in the center of the Earth and Heaven was up in the sky, which is completely wrong. If that's wrong then what other things about religion is wrong?

And Sev, pretty much nothing in the Bible was ever proven to be true, so how does it give you proof? That makes absolutely no sense.

I am seriously going to stop posting on this thread because it has absolutely no point. I am not getting through to anyone.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Note This: No one makes a fool of God and gets away with it. No one.

calvinanglin@gmail.com | Dei voluntas fiat
I seek to knowledge to share it.

90 (edited by Alo Fett Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:36 pm)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

(To the above statements)
There is more prof for Creation than evolution actually.  But your "Open Minded" Scientist refuse to show or even listen to it. I want everyone here to go and watch this Movie: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
WATCH THIS it is a trailer: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

BFFC-Mel wrote:

I believe there's a God or some entity watching over us, but there's so much proof of evolution it's pretty hard to deny.

One thing I consider is that the Bible has been rewritten so many times that things could have been omitted or lost in translation. Plus the Catholic church was pretty corrupt in the distant past that I'm sure they changed things to suit them.

I think the Bible is a moral guide more than anything.

You've also got to remember that people once thought the earth was flat too...

WOW. See this is what I talk to my friends about all the time.
1st off there is NO "prof" of evolution at all. Yes Darwin was right when he noticed the the birds changed but guess what? It didn't take billions of years. and the birds kept being birds! The bird were not "evolving" they were changing to suit their environment like everything does. There is no focils proving evolution right not even one. There is prof on the other hand of a world wide flood, Jesus and yep that's right Creation! I mean all you have to do is think about where ANYTHING comes from. If you ask some one where the 1st matter came form what do they say? Answer: they say you are stupid and not to ask stupid questions. Why? Because they don't know.
I want everyone here to go and watch this Movie: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
WATCH THIS: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

2ndly Have you ever head of the dead sea scrolls? These are scrolls that have been found and that date back to ruffly 100 AD part of these scrolls have parts of the Bible in them and I will admit not all but most are the same as the Bible we have today.


In the end it is not facts that will change your or my mind it is God. I was a Christian before I knew all the things I know now. I have done this many times and usually the people I debate with just get mad and leave. And it would have been better off if we had never had the debate. Most of us who are Christian are not Christian because facts. And most of you who are not Christian have another reason. And no matter how many facts I throw at you (and I can throw a lot) what I care about and what God cares about is your heart and you as a person not as a mind not as a number to check off but as a friend and as someone to talk to and to love. I hope I got everything across.

If you wan to talk more about facts or anything else you can PM me or e-mail me at: albenjammin@yahoo.com I think I will watch this page.

...I live by one rule and it is this: Freedom. Enslave no one and be no ones slave. No more no less. I am a hunter and no one rules me.  - Alo Fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Oh yeah we leard about that in world history yesterdy...

calvinanglin@gmail.com | Dei voluntas fiat
I seek to knowledge to share it.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Commander Appo wrote:

The Universe goes on and on forever. It never ends, as far as we know. How can one being, even if he is supernatural, watch over something that never ends?  He'd be helping endless planets, which makes no sense because then he'd never have time to give Jesus to us or anything.

Even if God is real, does he watch over just Earth? Then where is he? Invisible? In medieval times we believed that God existed in the clouds up in the sky, in Heaven. Now we know that nothings there.

And we know what the center of the Earth is like. There is no Hell or Satan, just a Mantle, an Outer core, and an Inner Core. So Hell or Heaven can't be real.

Science is based on FACT, which means humans have proof that things exist. Faith is based on FAITH, which means that there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF.

People who are on the side of faith always argue about how Evolution is wrong, but they can't say anything to supporty their faith because of the lack of proof that God exists.

And Sev, I never said that if anything bad happens that it's his fault. I just said he never helps us.

And when did I slander Christianity?

Just about everything you said here is not what Christians actually believe, just what you assume we believe.

Commander Appo wrote:

You say the scientific community isn't open-minded? Try and tell someone religious that God isn't real, they'll be so set that God is real that they won't even think about what the are being told or take into consideration what they are being told, at least in my experience.

It sucks yo have had to deal with people like that, but the majority of Christians are not like that.

Commander Appo wrote:

The scientific community is will actually change what they think as they learn new things. Before Darwin, scientists didn't even know what Evolution was. As you said, 95% of scientists lean towards Evolution, ehich means that they DO accept new theories, unlike in religion where people are told that THIS is the way it happened. They don't do any research to try and prove that they are correct, they just assume that
Awhatever they believe in is right.

Uhh, wrong. Most people don't belive what they are told because theywere told it. Most of us realize that somethings are probably misunderstood or incorrect, and actually think about it, and come up with our own theories.

However, if someone put an article in the newspaper about how scientists have recently come up with a form of teleportation, most people would believe it.

take it easy baby take it as it comes

93 (edited by Alo Fett Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:42 pm)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

True Draco. And yes it is annoying when someone just fights and forgets about what really maters, the heart.
Please check out this movie it is very funny and a great answer to everyone asking "where is the prof?".

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/video.php

...I live by one rule and it is this: Freedom. Enslave no one and be no ones slave. No more no less. I am a hunter and no one rules me.  - Alo Fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

this point may have already been brought up but if evolution rly did happen then why would it suddenly stop u know what i mean?
i believe god created the earth and all its beings and oceans but how would u define days back then so

i dont care if you kill me it'll just one more worthless person out of the world. J. fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

and if evolution was real shouldn't humans have wings or some obscure thing that normal humans dont have.

i dont care if you kill me it'll just one more worthless person out of the world. J. fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Babtist All The Way

i dont care if you kill me it'll just one more worthless person out of the world. J. fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

J. fett wrote:

and if evolution was real shouldn't humans have wings or some obscure thing that normal humans dont have.

i didn't want to get in to this topic, very touchy subject,

but you obviously are too uninformed to post here

evolution doesn't work that way

Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Personaly i think evolution is real. And i believe in a creator. J.Fett, dont double/tripple post its considered spam

[i]The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed[/i]
[url=http://lfgcomic.com/page/1]Interrogations are hard...[/url]

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Adeptus_Astartes wrote:

Personaly i think evolution is real. And i believe in a creator. J.Fett, dont double/tripple post its considered spam

i completely agree, even the last part tongue

Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

J. fett wrote:

and if evolution was real shouldn't humans have wings or some obscure thing that normal humans dont have.

Evolution doesn't work that fast. Plus, we have just about everything we need.

take it easy baby take it as it comes