Re: Karen Traviss...

I must say the I enjoy her writing, and I don't think there's anything seriously wrong her characterization of Boba Fett. The only that bothers me is that she wrote that Sintas Vel might still be alive frozen in carbonite... I really don't like the direction that scenario could go in, but, I digress...
Perhaps you have to look at Travis's interpretation of Boba Fett as him changing as he has aged. People change due to their surroundings and experiences. Boba is in his 70's now, I think he's going to start realizing the real issues in his life, and try his best to make amends before it is too late. He's not going to be as obsessed with bounty hunting now that he's elderly, why should he concern himself with petty criminals when he has the chance to rebuild the Mandalorian society? I'm sure Boba wants to make Jango proud, and what better way to prove himself?

Side note: I love her RC series, you really grow attatched to all the wonderful characters. Fi=love.

-BFFC Manji aka Jess

Re: Karen Traviss...

Manji_Ninja wrote:

I must say the I enjoy her writing, and I don't think there's anything seriously wrong her characterization of Boba Fett. The only that bothers me is that she wrote that Sintas Vel might still be alive frozen in carbonite... I really don't like the direction that scenario could go in, but, I digress...
Perhaps you have to look at Travis's interpretation of Boba Fett as him changing as he has aged. People change due to their surroundings and experiences. Boba is in his 70's now, I think he's going to start realizing the real issues in his life, and try his best to make amends before it is too late. He's not going to be as obsessed with bounty hunting now that he's elderly, why should he concern himself with petty criminals when he has the chance to rebuild the Mandalorian society? I'm sure Boba wants to make Jango proud, and what better way to prove himself?

Side note: I love her RC series, you really grow attatched to all the wonderful characters. Fi=love.

I like what your saying, Manji!  I agree that his priorities could easily change.  I love her RC series as well

"Train your sons to be strong, but your daughters to be stronger."--Karen Traviss, Bloodlines

Re: Karen Traviss...

I won't go into a long rant about how I feel about Traviss (I believe I already did as such back before I left).  I dislike her writing style.  I dislike what she did with the Mandalorians. 
More so, I hate the fact that all the books out and currently in development for the post-NJO timeline are penned by a triumvirate of mediocre writers, while those with real talent are given the shaft for some reason.
Namely, Matthew Stover, IMO the best author to have ever graced the SW universe.

But my problems with the current arc are more related to the despicable Troy Denning than any issues with Traviss, suffice to say, I don't like her and I don't like what's she's done.  I don't give a rip if George approved her, George screwed up everything a long time ago.  I can't wait until more sensible heads are in charge of the expanded universe, the long-awaited day where I might be able to pick up a new Star Wars novel and enjoy it for a change.

"If you don't want me to eat you.....SAY SOMETHING." 
-Captian Murphy

29 (edited by BFFC-Mel Monday, November 5, 2007 10:35 pm)

Re: Karen Traviss...

Well I have enjoyed the Commando novels and look forward to the latest one.

I did buy Bloodlines but I just couldn't get the motivation to read it - the blurb didn't help. I started and it didn't grab me. I guess the whole Fett/Solo element also annoyed me. How unoriginal. Anyway, I'm glad that some people enjoy it but I'm a fan of non prequel Boba. So this didn't really cut the mustard for me, so I chose not to read it. Anyone want my copy? tongue

BFFC Moderator
It was like thousands of voices cried out for a sequel and were suddenly silenced...

Re: Karen Traviss...

It's the only one I don't have in that series!

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

BFFC-Mel wrote:

Well I have enjoyed the Commando novels and look forward to the latest one.

Mind you, it's a matter of personal taste for me when it comes to her writing style, I don't mean to demean any of her fans. ^_^  But I do hate Denning to the ends of the earth.

"If you don't want me to eat you.....SAY SOMETHING." 
-Captian Murphy

Re: Karen Traviss...

I honestly enjoy Karen's books.  She's done more for bringing Mandalorian culture and character to light then any writer to date.  Until EP2, we had very little Mandalorian info short of comics and tons of books on Boba...which gave us little to no real insight at all.  She has humanized them into actual people, and not just suits of armor with a one sided brain. 

She's really helped put a story behind the helmets.

Mandálii kote. Eran, vode, c'rtä! - Mandalorian Glory.  We, brothers, stand as one!
[url=http://mercs.firespray.net]Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club[/url]

33 (edited by virulent_messiah Friday, November 30, 2007 10:44 am)

Re: Karen Traviss...

BFFC-Mel wrote:

Well I have enjoyed the Commando novels and look forward to the latest one.

I did buy Bloodlines but I just couldn't get the motivation to read it - the blurb didn't help. I started and it didn't grab me. I guess the whole Fett/Solo element also annoyed me. How unoriginal. Anyway, I'm glad that some people enjoy it but I'm a fan of non prequel Boba. So this didn't really cut the mustard for me, so I chose not to read it. Anyone want my copy? tongue

Mel, I understand where you might have been unmotivated. However, as a fellow Fett fan, Im of the opinion that Bloodlines was by far the best chance I've gotten to truly understand Boba Fett as a man and what truly motivates him. Trust me, I dont rely on the blurbs anyway, they never do the books justice. Try again. Who knows?

As for what Novall Talon said:

Novall Talon wrote:

I honestly enjoy Karen's books.  She's done more for bringing Mandalorian culture and character to light then any writer to date.  Until EP2, we had very little Mandalorian info short of comics and tons of books on Boba...which gave us little to no real insight at all.  She has humanized them into actual people, and not just suits of armor with a one sided brain. 

She's really helped put a story behind the helmets.

I whole-heartedly agree...

"Kom'rk tsad droten troch nyn ures adenn, Dha Werda Verda a'den tratu."
  [url]http://mercs.firespray.net/forum/index.php?topic=39267.0[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

Novall Talon wrote:

I honestly enjoy Karen's books.  She's done more for bringing Mandalorian culture and character to light then any writer to date.  Until EP2, we had very little Mandalorian info short of comics and tons of books on Boba...which gave us little to no real insight at all.  She has humanized them into actual people, and not just suits of armor with a one sided brain. 

She's really helped put a story behind the helmets.

Agreed! big_smile  The Mandos are enjoying a surge of fandom thanks in a large part to her.

"Train your sons to be strong, but your daughters to be stronger."--Karen Traviss, Bloodlines

Re: Karen Traviss...

Agreed! big_smile  The Mandos are enjoying a surge of fandom thanks in a large part to her.

I dunno, I have to admit that it sort of annoys me how popular the Mandalorians are now... hmm
Can't put my finger on it...

-BFFC Manji aka Jess

Re: Karen Traviss...

I like the Mando popularity, however, I don't think I like how, well, peaceful they seem.  Call me a warmonger, I just can't help but imagine Mandos in battle, dominating the field.  Farming peaceably at home is not the first image that comes to mind.  I mean, I like the depiction of the Mando's as people behind the armour, but in some ways, it's the armour and the combat that makes them seem so cool for me.  I'm not a big fan of Traviss' interpretations on them.  But then, that's just me, I suppose.

Due to maintenance problems, the light at the end of the tunnel will not be in operation today.  Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

Re: Karen Traviss...

If you wanna see war-hungry mandos, then read the KOTOR graphic novels.  Modern Mandalorians had to change to survive in a Republic they couldn't destroy.  I mean lets face it, their leaders haven't always been the brightest bulbs, challenging sith lords to single combat, fighting wars on 2 fronts, etc. 

Mandos are people like you and me, who when the call comes down get in their armor and kick some butt.  Why is it so difficult for people to see Mando's like that?  If anything, that should make them MORE appealing.

Novall "Beskar'lovik" Talon

Mandálii kote. Eran, vode, c'rtä! - Mandalorian Glory.  We, brothers, stand as one!
[url=http://mercs.firespray.net]Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

I think teh reason for it being so difficult to see them like that is that our first intro to Mandos is Boba Fett, dn he does not seem like a normal person.  I now they are just normal people, but I am just saying that I picture them as the fighters, top of the galaxy.  And yes, their leaders have made some foolish errors, but they can always improve.  Still though, in the more recent books, the Republic has been fractured enough.  If they wanted to take it out, they have the perfect opportunity to do so.  But that would result in a decrease in hunting revenue, logically, which would explain why they wouldn't do it.  I don't know.  In the end, it just comes down to I do not like Traviss' protrayal of them.  I can understand why she's doing it, and I respect that.  I guess it's more of Fett's portrayal than Mandalorian as a whole.  She really altered him, I think.  And, personally, not for the better.

Due to maintenance problems, the light at the end of the tunnel will not be in operation today.  Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

Re: Karen Traviss...

Oh, I agree that she's changed everything we ever thought about Mandos.  Lets not forget though that Fett (who has been tackled by many different authors) didn't actually live the life of a Mando'ade.  He didn't even want to be Mand'alor when he was asked to be so.  So technically, writing about Mandos and writing about Fett are two different things. 

Personally, I don't think anyone could have written Fett any worse then he was written in Tales of the Bounty Hunters where he has fear in his eyes when Dengar is choking him. 

I respect the fact that you don't like her writing, but I think if you go through and read all of the books about Fett, then read KT's work on the RC series and Bloodlines...your going to see that she isn't writing it in the one dimensional way that every other writer has written Fett.  If you've read one book about Fett, you've read them all.

Novall "Beskar'lovik" Talon

Mandálii kote. Eran, vode, c'rtä! - Mandalorian Glory.  We, brothers, stand as one!
[url=http://mercs.firespray.net]Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

Okay, now I'm reading RC: True Colors and it really annoys how much Mando is written in it, yet there is no dictionary like in the back of Triple Zero. Now, some of the words I memorized while reading Triple Zero, BUT there are loads of new words too.
I realize I can pull them up online, but I'm not going to check the computer when I'm half-way through a chapter. Then when I do use the computer, I forget about not knowing the meaning of the word... it's just annoying.
Not every Star Wars fan can speak Mando fluently... usually the morons who go around on certain forums posting "Kandossiiii nerr vod!!!11" can't either...

I guess my problem with not liking the Mando popularity is the reason above. Too many younger fans who are annoying think they're Mando'ade.
But I digress...

-BFFC Manji aka Jess

Re: Karen Traviss...

yes, thats got on my nerves more than once... but usauly you can tell what they mean by the current situation. So most of the time its not a problem for me.

[i]"Sir, Finishing this Cake."[/i]

Re: Karen Traviss...

Mandalorian Assassin wrote:

I like the Mando popularity, however, I don't think I like how, well, peaceful they seem.  Call me a warmonger, I just can't help but imagine Mandos in battle, dominating the field.  Farming peaceably at home is not the first image that comes to mind.  I mean, I like the depiction of the Mando's as people behind the armour, but in some ways, it's the armour and the combat that makes them seem so cool for me.  I'm not a big fan of Traviss' interpretations on them.  But then, that's just me, I suppose.

Let's keep in mind that the Mando'ade are nomadic by nature. Not to mention that the name Fett is a derivative of the Mando word "vhett" which means farmer. Being a family oriented, adoptive society, I could see them spending time on the rugged plains of Mandalore, tending the homestead, then strapping on the beskar'gam and going off to kill for the creds...

...to each his own vod...

"Kom'rk tsad droten troch nyn ures adenn, Dha Werda Verda a'den tratu."
  [url]http://mercs.firespray.net/forum/index.php?topic=39267.0[/url]

43 (edited by Ralin Drakus Friday, December 7, 2007 11:31 pm)

Re: Karen Traviss...

Mandalorian Assassin wrote:

I like the Mando popularity, however, I don't think I like how, well, peaceful they seem.  Call me a warmonger, I just can't help but imagine Mandos in battle, dominating the field.  Farming peaceably at home is not the first image that comes to mind.  I mean, I like the depiction of the Mando's as people behind the armour, but in some ways, it's the armour and the combat that makes them seem so cool for me.  I'm not a big fan of Traviss' interpretations on them.  But then, that's just me, I suppose.

Oya MANDA!!!  From a fellow warmonger!!!

They're like the Marines!  Breaking things and kicking *** is just what Mando's are supposed to do!

Now, it's true that not all Mandalorinans live that way in the hard times since their defeat by Reven.  But I don't consider those Mandalorians who have turned to farming and the simple life as Mando's; they've strayed from that path.  The real Mandalorians are the ones who still live the the old way like Boba and Jango did; aquiring Honor in the face of danger, in their case by capturing and killing the galaxy's most dangerous criminals.

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Ralin Drakus wrote:

Oya MANDA!!!  From a fellow warmonger!!!

They're like the Marines!  Breaking things and kicking *** is just what Mando's are supposed to do!

Now, it's true that not all Mandalorinans live that way in the hard times since their defeat by Reven.  But I don't consider those Mandalorians who have turned to farming and the simple life as Mando's; they've strayed from that path.  The real Mandalorians are the ones who still live the the old way like Boba and Jango did; aquiring Honor in the face of danger, in their case by capturing and killing the galaxy's most dangerous criminals.

Wait...
Boba and Jango never considered themselves Mando'ade. Kal Skirata, Walon Vau, and Rav Bralor, not too mention a few others were Mandalore's through and through. They spent their lives "aquiring Honor in the face of danger, in their case by capturing and killing the galaxy's most dangerous criminals," as well. Kal Skirata even gave the clones, especially his Nulls and Commandos, a chance to find an identity rather than die in battle as "wet droids" for an ignorant Republic, by giving them a Mando'ad culture.

As for "... I don't consider those Mandalorians who have turned to farming and the simple life as Mando's; they've strayed from that path. " Life on a Mandalorian homestead was far from simple. Wake up, tend the farm, raise the family, strap on the Beskar'gam, capture and/OR killing the galaxy's most dangerous criminals and fight wars for people who consider you thugs. If you were a woman, do all that and have kids.

If that's simple...hell. I dunno what's more Mandalorian...

You guys need to do more homework on this stuff...

"Kom'rk tsad droten troch nyn ures adenn, Dha Werda Verda a'den tratu."
  [url]http://mercs.firespray.net/forum/index.php?topic=39267.0[/url]

Re: Karen Traviss...

virulent_messiah wrote:

Wait...

Boba and Jango never considered themselves Mando'ade.

No, YOU wait!

Jango NEVER considered himself a Mando'ade!?!  Where do you get that from!?!  He was the last leader of the Mandalorians before the Clone Wars!  You think he woke up some morning and said "To hell with Jaster and ALL he taught me about Honor and the Mandalorian ways.  I'm just watching my own *** from now on"?!?

Boba I can't be sure about, but I have a hard time believing that one, too.  As he was raised by Jango.  It's always been said of him that "He lives by his own code."  Can anybody prove that it's not a Mando based 'Code' that he's living by??

Not trying to slam you, V_M, but you came at me and a couple other's on this thread really hard with at least this one bit of 'evidence' that looks really untrue.  As for 'is farming hard,' hell yes it and the other labors that go with the kind of life that you're talking about is hard.  That doesn't mean Mando's live that way.  I've explained in other posts my feelings about the way they live, and the reasons why.  If Traviss has written otherwise, that's her thing.  I'll always see Mandalorians as warriors, and little else.

"You set a code to live by.  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on.  I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."

Re: Karen Traviss...

Novall Talon wrote:

Oh, I agree that she's changed everything we ever thought about Mandos.  Lets not forget though that Fett (who has been tackled by many different authors) didn't actually live the life of a Mando'ade.  He didn't even want to be Mand'alor when he was asked to be so.  So technically, writing about Mandos and writing about Fett are two different things. 

Personally, I don't think anyone could have written Fett any worse then he was written in Tales of the Bounty Hunters where he has fear in his eyes when Dengar is choking him. 

I respect the fact that you don't like her writing, but I think if you go through and read all of the books about Fett, then read KT's work on the RC series and Bloodlines...your going to see that she isn't writing it in the one dimensional way that every other writer has written Fett.  If you've read one book about Fett, you've read them all.

Novall "Beskar'lovik" Talon

well put. but to tell the truth, there wasn't much even mentioned ever about the Mando's before she started writing. she wrote the language from scatch, as well as other things. i love what she's done with it.


and since when did Jango not consider himself a mando? the mandalorians were fractured by the Jedi, he was a slave, and then a bounty hunter, but before he had been mandalore. perhaps he thought the Mandos were done, or just wanted to be a bounty hunter. I dont' know.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Re: Karen Traviss...

I've met, spoken to and got along well with Karen since first meeting her at Spaceport 1 early last year. I've found her books entertaining and more adult then the vast majority of Star Wars novels out there (and I've read almost all of them). You either like her books or don't, same as any other authors work. I recall people being upset that George explaining the mystery behind Boba, revealing that he was a clone of Jango instead of that mysterious faceless character with no known past that unbelievably stands his ground with Vader in Ep IV. That past, this will too.
If you don't like her books or the style of her writing (personally I'm pleased it isn't all about super powerful Jedi saving the day with their fancy torches and smug attitudes). As to Mando's and their being farmers, engineers and the like that Karen has described and the comments that has provoked from members here - remember that Vikings were farmers and fishermen until they went on a raid, then they were warriors, killers and all round general nastiness. Didn't make them any the less Vikings cause they lived a more "normal" life and neither does Mando's being farmers, metal workers, scientist etc, especially given that they always wear their armour and carry weapons at all times.
What Karen has done is broaden the readers view of Mandalorians and show that they aren't all mental (not physical) clones of Boba. In other words she's made Mandalorians seem more real. Now, Boba in the books is seventy-one years old and things from his past are coming back to haunt him and he's been forced to face up to his own mortality. He is however far from getting soft or being changed in inappropriate ways, what we are reading is a depth of character that we haven't seen before. No other writer has written of Boba as anything but a nasty killer who's out for his own ends, whilst this has fitted the various stories in many of them it has made the outcome predictable and boring and in the worst cases Boba appear very 2-dimensional (The Mandalorian Armor books are a prime example of this). Karen's books haven't re-written this but have expanded upon the Boba already established by adding new layers to him. He's now more human, but colder, more understandable but just as deadly. In many ways the addition of his motives and feelings make him come across as far more ruthless and nasty then ever before, as we now know just why he walked away from people or did the things he has done in other stories. I for one find it incredably interesting to read, not to mention fun. 
As to the books being canon, well of-course they are. You don't have to read them or like them but it doesn't change the fact they are official parts of Star Wars.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/OrtharRrith/OrtharRrith-1.jpg[/img]

Re: Karen Traviss...

well put. fett now has a new side to him, and he's opened a little, but is still cold and tough. He's a bit more human now, which i Like. TOO cold isn't good. and I like the viking analogy

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Re: Karen Traviss...

Her book wasnt bad I just wish she would have followed it up with another about him at least. She isnt amazing or anything and I do agree with it pissing me off when writers just decided to make things up about Boba, but I think it pisses me off more that there are so many conflicting stories about the Fetts.

"Trample The Weak, Hurdle The Dead"

Re: Karen Traviss...

I enjoy Traviss' books.  Why do hardcore fans of something always have to have it THEIR way?  You like the Boba from the original movies...ok, I'm cool with that.  You don't like the Boba from the books.  Ok...so then don't read them.  Nobody says that you have to like and read everything that even slightly relates to Boba...

But then again...I am talking to members of a Boba Fett fan club... big_smile  Eh, just get over it.  Pretend like the books don't exist in your world.  Don't pee on everyone else's cheerios.