51 (edited by Force Master R Thursday, June 7, 2007 8:23 am)

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

Whoa, get your laptop confenscated for a week and look at what you miss.
On the subject of animal testing, I think that while animal testing is sad, I think that until we come up with a viable alternitive, it's the only thing we can do, other than offer money to people to act as human guinea pigs.  There is talk of using clones, or cloned organs for testing, but that opens up another can of worms...clones, the final frontier.  And when it comes down to it, humans are more improtant then animals.  Animals, while not being expendible, are of lesser value than human beings.  And man will never "break the food chain."  1. We are too smart and love living to much to ever do anything that would perminatly kill us.  2. If evolution is true, then some animal will fill in the gap left by another.  "Life will find a way", to quote Jurassic Park.  And if evolution is bunk, well, then it's not in our control, is it?  3. "Man shall not live on bread alone" dosn't mean we can't be veggitarians.  Yeah, we don't need animals, just give me some more tofu.  Now, I hope that I never have to give up my burger eating ways, but I, and the rest of mankind, can live with out In-and Out.  At least I hope we can. 

Now just to clarify, mankind, as it is in charge of animals, should look out for them, in such ways as ending whaling, animal abuse, and many other things.  It's just that man comes first.

There, I think that covers everything.  Well, how about it? Clones and testing?  What is your opinion?

All for one, and that one is me!

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

lol then I guess we just  could clone animals like in 6th day with Schwarzenegger and never have a problem.

Fear! Fear attracts the fearful...fear is my ally.

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

Force Master R wrote:

There, I think that covers everything.  Well, how about it? Clones and testing?  What is your opinion?

Clones. I do not understand the point of clones so I am indifferent about them.

What do you mean by testing do you mean creating clones to be tested or creating organs, cells etc for testing.

If it is creating clones for testing them I do not agree. Just because they are clones does not mean that they will not feel pain etc.

If it is creating organs, cells etc to test on then I think that could be a better way than animal testing and I would not have any issue with it.

Jedi photographer - May the focus be with me.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/devil_girl/]Photographs[/url]

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

What's the point of clones?  That's a god question.  The reasons behind the Idea of cloning are several, the 1st being "because we can."  Yeah, it's simply the fact that we "could" create exact duplicates of people that has scientist tripping over themselves in an effort to be the first to scream "In the name of science!" and "Live, live, I command you to LIIIIIIVVEE!!!"  Another reason is the potential for orgain harvesting and to give children to the childless. See "The Island" for further information.  Another idea is that potentialy we could clone just a liver, if that was all a person needed, or for testing how a particular drug would affect a liver.  Complications with this process have yet to be worked out, leaving time for people to argue the moral impact that cloning would have, one of the major ones being, "would cloning people lead us to veiw clones as less than human?"  See any number of Sci-fi films for further referance.

All for one, and that one is me!

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

One of the most important debates about cloning right now is that we do not have the scientific ability to clone just one organ, and so it would be necessary to clone an entire human and essentially "kill" him for the organ. Now if this means we have to kill a living breathing human being than I feel that this is not right, wait for the next stage of scientific breakthrough. But there have been developments claiming that it would be like an abortion and that the fetus would not have to actually develope to a sentient phase.

This is all from knowledge i can remember at the moment, if anything is wrong, out of date or whatever, feel free to call me out on it.

Good... Bad... I'm the one with the gun.
Hail to the King Baby!!

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

Fetterthanyou wrote:

Now if this means we have to kill a living breathing human being than I feel that this is not right, wait for the next stage of scientific breakthrough. But there have been developments claiming that it would be like an abortion and that the fetus would not have to actually develope to a sentient phase.

This is all from knowledge i can remember at the moment, if anything is wrong, out of date or whatever, feel free to call me out on it.

Well that is if you beleave in abortion.

...I live by one rule and it is this: Freedom. Enslave no one and be no ones slave. No more no less. I am a hunter and no one rules me.  - Alo Fett

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

Force Master R wrote:

What's the point of clones?  That's a god question.  The reasons behind the Idea of cloning are several, the 1st being "because we can."  Yeah, it's simply the fact that we "could" create exact duplicates of people that has scientist tripping over themselves in an effort to be the first to scream "In the name of science!" and "Live, live, I command you to LIIIIIIVVEE!!!"  Another reason is the potential for orgain harvesting and to give children to the childless. See "The Island" for further information.  Another idea is that potentialy we could clone just a liver, if that was all a person needed, or for testing how a particular drug would affect a liver.  Complications with this process have yet to be worked out, leaving time for people to argue the moral impact that cloning would have, one of the major ones being, "would cloning people lead us to veiw clones as less than human?"  See any number of Sci-fi films for further referance.

That is true. I do not think that cloning is the best for childless couples as I think it would be better to have a child with a mixture of the parent’s genes rather than one or the other.

Sadly, I do think that cloned people will be looked down on and bullied. It has also been mentioned in some of the Star Wars books (though LOL I would like to see anyone who was brave enough to attempt to pick on Boba)

Fetterthanyou wrote:

One of the most important debates about cloning right now is that we do not have the scientific ability to clone just one organ, and so it would be necessary to clone an entire human and essentially "kill" him for the organ. Now if this means we have to kill a living breathing human being than I feel that this is not right, wait for the next stage of scientific breakthrough. But there have been developments claiming that it would be like an abortion and that the fetus would not have to actually develope to a sentient phase.

This is all from knowledge i can remember at the moment, if anything is wrong, out of date or whatever, feel free to call me out on it.

I completely agree with that. It would be wrong to grow a baby to kill it for the organs. I have no idea though as I so not know much about the latest scientific development at the moment (I am amazed that I am managing to keep up with the news at the moment as I am so busy at the moment)

If it were possible to just grow the organs that were needed then that would be much better.

Jedi photographer - May the focus be with me.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/devil_girl/]Photographs[/url]

Re: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

Since the subject is changing mid-thread, I'm going to close this one down. If you'd like to do a series of topics, try a common prefix like they do with RPG's. For example: "Your Thoughts on Cloning," or "Your Thoughts on Animal Rights."

Thanks to Cujo for suggesting this right at the start: "you should attempt to address one issue at a time, or threads get convoluted."

See Draco's post, also right at the start, for all the other subject-specific threads out there. Of course you may revive a thread if you have a new take or question to give it. You may also search for subjects.

aaron@bobafettfanclub.com