1 (edited by THE FLASH Saturday, March 18, 2006 6:20 pm)

Topic: the morality of killing?

At the request of KudarMubat15, i have started a topic about people's views on killing, this is so the topic of "Boba's morality", isnt getting bogged down and ruined.

I will start with the following from Scififreak

"You wanna find out? I could come up with a few nice examples.

For instance, I could go for the 'sweet spot'. Fourth Lumbard down, left of the spine, abdominal Aorta.

Or, a head shot, any headshot, whether at 3 meters of 3 hundred.

Or, one of my personal favorites: You slit their throat, deep, down into the windpipe. Then, you pull the tongue through the slit. Instant necktie.

Or, you could do it ritually. You get them on their knees (best done with two shooters), place the guns at the back of the head so they criss-cross in the braincase and exit through the eyes. Then you put coins in the now-empty sockets.

Every kill is beautiful in its own way."

I fail to see how any of this is beautiful. Sick perhaps.  But not beautiful. And the first line could be taken as a threat also.

"This is where my theme song would kick in, if I had a theme song. And not that Flash Gordon movie thing, either." —The Flash

Re: the morality of killing?

I have to agree with Flash, I don't think killing someone is a beautiful thing...

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Re: the morality of killing?

WHAT!? You can't see the beauty in such magnificent kills? I'm both disgusted and confused at the same time.

Do you feel an adrenaline rush when faced with combat sai? That euphoric exhilaration that consumes the body whenever there's fighting to be done. Be it a large-scale battle or a lunchroom brawl, there's always an urge to do battle, to fight. I can feel that urge, that desire, the almost basic need to hurt something or someone. And when I'm in that state, that 'battle-haze', every landed strike, every millileter of blood that flies, is the very essence of beauty. That, is how I find it beautiful (a word I very rarely use) sai, and that might explain why you don't. Perhaps there's just no trace of warrior blood in you. An archaic reference perhaps, but a very true one.

And another thing sai, and one I find most disheartening. Threats, when given online, are completely useless. If I had a serious threat to say, I would save it for if/when we meet face to face. Threats given behind the subject's back, or a threat unable to be fulfilled, is dishonorable, and cowardice. I despise both.

"I AM A SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!" - Belkar

Re: the morality of killing?

I don't know what's wrong with you FLASH, violence is part of the male instinct, allowing us to kill in order to protect our young, or the like. 
Were you neutered as a child?  If so, I completly understand, and won't argue with you further.  If not, There is something wrong with you.  With all complete pacifists.  If people in ancient times were like you, we'd probably not all exist right now, with them not being able to defend themselves against threats.  Think about it.

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Re: the morality of killing?

Violence may be part of the male instinct, but dislike of the thought of death (whether it be your own or someone elses) is also human instinct. Also morals have to do with your oppinions on it as well. There is nothing wrong with disliking killing people.

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6 (edited by THE FLASH Saturday, March 18, 2006 6:52 pm)

Re: the morality of killing?

Oh i can defend the people i care about and i would. But your not talking about that, your talking about taking pleasure in hurting people. What is wrong with you? Are you lacking any real love in life that you feel you have to lash out at the world? Outside of fantasing about hurting people, do you have social lives or friends who aren't weapons? Been brave and manly isn't about hurting people because you want to, it is doing the right thing and doing what is best for others, even if it means sacrificing somthing yourself.

But Yautja and Scififreak, how many people have you ever seriously hurt? As in hospitiled or worse?

"This is where my theme song would kick in, if I had a theme song. And not that Flash Gordon movie thing, either." —The Flash

Re: the morality of killing?

I was about to ask that same question... tongue (Seriously)

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Re: the morality of killing?

I also agree that killing isn't beautiful. Its an extreme last resort but never beautiful. And i don't think you need to be neutered to be sane and to realise that killing isn't a form of art and beauty.

Re: the morality of killing?

Killing is not beautiful, to me.

And as for the male instinct thing, my BF's pacifist, and I like him better that way. If he was all into killing and hurting and stuff, I wouldn't be with him.

And, we would be here if no one liked fighting. Even people who don't like it do it when it's absolutely nescesary and there's no way to avoid it. And besides, if we were all pacifist the only real danger or threat I can think of would be animals, and that could be dealt with without violence except in extreme circumstances. I'm not saying the world should be like that, cause without that where would our action movies be? wink

Reality doesn't care if you believe in it.
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10 (edited by SciFifreak90 Saturday, March 18, 2006 7:26 pm)

Re: the morality of killing?

Pacifist....I hate that word. It signifies both stupidity and a lack of logic. The rejection of violence in all it's forms would be a most saddening thing indeed, and I hope I'm never alive to see it happen. My friend put it quite well:

"[my name], if I ever turn pacifist, I want you to kill me."

I agreed on the condition that he do the same for me.

"I AM A SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!" - Belkar

Re: the morality of killing?

It's harder to be a pacifist, then a cold, logical killer. Humans are such...humans, unfortunately. So many shades of gray, so many righteous hypocrasies.

That's why I think it's fitting that Boba Fett looks gray. (Even if only in ESB) He's not really wrong or right.

Whether you follow the Golden rule, God's rule, or No rule someone always gets hurt. It's a no win situation, honestly. Killing can be interpreted in so many ways, and it has.  It all boils down to what you individually feel is right.

Personally, I hold to the quote, "Every man is the hero of his own story."

Agh. The problem with discussions of morality is that someone always gets offended and they always turn into violent Jihads.

"A thousand years of space and time and I have never come across anyone wasn't important." -- Doctor Who

Re: the morality of killing?

Alright I won't discuss any morality issues then, but I have my say about the "beauty" in a kill...

I think people confuse the sense of beauty with the excitement / adrenaline rush that comes when you commit or see the act. If the person is relating to either the killer or the victim, there's obviously something happening in the brain effecting an emotion of some sort.

My point of view is that "beauty" is not the result of the act, not the act itself but the state of mind that the killer enters when he prepares to kill. It's the detachment and complete lack of emotion that makes a human being become something different and inhuman. It's the unthought analogy with a superior will or "god" if you want. That's why it's called "playing God" since you end someone's life (with or without their consent). A kill that is done under influence of some primary emotion (hatred, jealousy, frustration) can't be considered "honorable" by reasonable person.

What I like about the Fetts and Mandos in general is this: they don't kill out of revenge, hate or some kind of perverse self-gratifying challenge. They're cold, methodic, and get the job done because it's necessary (as in, if they don't do it someone else would, but not in a "clean" way). That's why it's hard for me to say if they're evil... They're just dangerous and yes, beauty can be found in the concept of danger since it strips a soul of everything but the will to survive and protect their kin.

I hope I didn't offend anyone cause "morals" can pop out of anything wink

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13 (edited by The Yautja Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:42 am)

Re: the morality of killing?

THE FLASH wrote:

Oh i can defend the people i care about and i would. But your not talking about that, your talking about taking pleasure in hurting people.

How many times do I have to tell you, I don't take a sadistic pleasure from killing.  Try listening for once.

THE FLASH wrote:

What is wrong with you? Are you lacking any real love in life that you feel you have to lash out at the world? Outside of fantasing about hurting people, do you have social lives or friends who aren't weapons?

Of course I have friends, (Probably more than you) SciFi being one of them, and they all like me for who I am. And I have a girlfriend who wouldn't be with me if I was any different.  She doesn't talk about guns or war as much as me, but she doesn't care when I do.  I don't like guns and killing because
I'm unloved.  (I'm very loved)  You make it sound like I'm some sort of depressed teenager or something.
   

THE FLASH wrote:

Been brave and manly isn't about hurting people because you want to, it is doing the right thing and doing what is best for others, even if it means sacrificing somthing yourself.

Once again.  I don't kill people whenever I want to, I just have no qualms about doing it when
I have to.   

THE FLASH wrote:

But Yautja and Scififreak, how many people have you ever seriously hurt? As in hospitiled or worse?

Heh.  Wouldn't you like to know.

Daenna wrote:

What I like about the Fetts and Mandos in general is this: they don't kill out of revenge, hate or some kind of perverse self-gratifying challenge. They're cold, methodic, and get the job done because it's necessary (as in, if they don't do it someone else would, but not in a "clean" way). That's why it's hard for me to say if they're evil... They're just dangerous and yes, beauty can be found in the concept of danger since it strips a soul of everything but the will to survive and protect their kin.

Exactly.  I agree with pretty much all of this, except the revenge part, (God have mercy on anyone who messes with me or my family) and the challenge thing.  Most if not all of the Mandos fought because they enjoyed the challange/pleasure of a kill.  That's why their entire culture and people are mercenaries. 
It is the reason that I think the Mandalorians are the best thing about SW.

If ya love me . . .And ya know me . . . And ya've seen me . . .
I'm Old Gregggggggg!

Re: the morality of killing?

Agh. The problem with discussions of morality is that someone always gets offended and they always turn into violent Jihads.

But as long as you make sure it isn't you, it doesn't really turn into a problem. If everyoned thought like that, no one would turn into a "violent Jihad", nor would you have to fear them being one... Most people in todays society are very easily offended, to a point of stupidity. I saw one person was pointing out the similaritires of Anakin and Jesus, and this one guy goes on a rampage that someone would suggest such a thing. There are other ones that make more sense though, like in evolution vs creation debates... But the problem with those is that neither side knows anything about the opposing side, and they don't know much about their own side as well...



I would kill if I had to. If I didn't, the death would serve absolutely no logical purpose, and therefore be obsolete. Now, I am taking this straight into a logical discussion when it is really more of a moral discussion. Morally though still, I don't like to cause pain. You can only gain enemies by that, not lose them. But I would still kill if I had to. Anyone would.

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Re: the morality of killing?

Unless they're already your enemy.  I'm pretty sure killing/hurting your enemy doesn't make him a 'double enemy' or something.

If ya love me . . .And ya know me . . . And ya've seen me . . .
I'm Old Gregggggggg!

Re: the morality of killing?

The Yautja wrote:

Unless they're already your enemy.  I'm pretty sure killing/hurting your enemy doesn't make him a 'double enemy' or something.

But why hurt them in the first place, i havnt got enemys, there are people i don't get along with, but i don't want to turn around and hurt them. I would still turn around though and defend myself if i had to, but there is no point in looking for trouble.

And as for Friends, in a two week period i receieved over 200 hundread text messages on my moblie phone, from plenty of different people, asking how i was and if i wanted to go and do this that and the other. I was out four times this week at clubs, with different people and i knew at least 20 people in each club. My msn list and moble numbers are huge also. This isnt a jibe at you, just pointing out a point.

"This is where my theme song would kick in, if I had a theme song. And not that Flash Gordon movie thing, either." —The Flash

Re: the morality of killing?

The Yautja wrote:

Unless they're already your enemy.  I'm pretty sure killing/hurting your enemy doesn't make him a 'double enemy' or something.

But it does hurt the chances that he will ever end being your enemy.

And to Flash, there are some people who just like to go around hurting people. (Hence the discussions we have had...) Some people go around making enemies just for the heck of it. The thing is, instead of fighting back you can "Kill them with kindness". (Though that doesn't always work, it sometimes does and is worth a shot.)

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Re: the morality of killing?

KudarMubat15 wrote:
The Yautja wrote:

Unless they're already your enemy.  I'm pretty sure killing/hurting your enemy doesn't make him a 'double enemy' or something.

But it does hurt the chances that he will ever end being your enemy.

And to Flash, there are some people who just like to go around hurting people. (Hence the discussions we have had...) Some people go around making enemies just for the heck of it. The thing is, instead of fighting back you can "Kill them with kindness". (Though that doesn't always work, it sometimes does and is worth a shot.)

I often find it better to "kill people with kindness" rather than a form of violence.

It is hard to hate someone who is kind to you.

"This is where my theme song would kick in, if I had a theme song. And not that Flash Gordon movie thing, either." —The Flash

Re: the morality of killing?

This topic's scale is inappropriate. The only way something like this would ever fly is it's as it used to be, ie. "Boba Fett's morality on killing." The Fan forum isn't going to promote "killing is beautiful."

Please restart it if you have things to add.

aaron@bobafettfanclub.com