this may not have a whole lot to do with this thread but there was a county somewhere that had a high incidence of rape. Women in that county were trained to use guns and issued guns and the rate of rape went down to zero. Seems like there is a place for weapons when used for the right reasons.

What is it they say?  "An armed society is a polite society."

Anyway, I really like older guns and they had a "Golden Boy" Winchester rifle for sale.  I was looking at it in the rack and noticed they had a couple AK-47's for sale in the case, too.  I was blown away (bad pun).  They weren't fully automatic, of course, but I was just really surprised they'd sell those on base.  Of course, it is the south, so we kind of like our guns down here, but all the same, on a military installation was a definite surprise for me.  I came here to Lousiana from being stationed in Wyoming, and they never had that at the BX up there.  Of all places, I would think they would up in Wyoming, because they're kind of gun happy up that way, too.

Exactly how does a gun, of any type protect a house hold if rules and regulations are ever present and it is locked up in a box, case etc? Yes it keeps children from using them, but does it make it effective to defend you and your loved ones during a home invasion?  You're casually watching TV with your wife/husband and two children. Two thieves kick in the door holding intending to make off with your property and harming your family. If you have a gun, but it is locked in a box under your bed, upstairs from where you are how does that effectively as a threat to those intending crime? What makes logical sense to me was the days where the family rifle was placed in arms reach above the fireplace, which is where everyone congregated anyway. It was there if someone was to storm in and take you by surprise. And it served as a warning, "this is what awaits if you dare enter with ill intent."

Great point.

There are lots of stupid laws like that that 'allow' you to posses a weapon, but you can only transport it disassembled, or locked with a legally approved disabling device.

I remember hearing of a politician who was describing how 'easy' it really is to remove one of the disabling devices *I think it was one of those padlock lookin' things with a cable instead of a ring that you run through the barrel and chamber; that or one of those trigger guard things* and he proceeded to demonstrate.  If he'd practiced before the conference, it didn't show.  The dude fought with it for I don't know how long, and finally another guy went up to the podium to help.  I'm not sure they ever got it off... and this was in a calm, normal atmosphere, no pressure of having an armed criminal coming after you with a gun, knife, or whatever.  I wish I could remember what law these dudes were pushing, and who the speaker was...it might be on youtube.  Will supply info/link if I can find either

The biggest argument for such laws are kids getting their hands on them, and secondly theft.  In a world after so many terrible shootings, I understand the fear that drives such arguments.  However, the right to defend yourself is hamstrung to such a degree, that any benefits are nullified in my mind.  There's really no easy answer for that one.  You'll be confronted with people who could throw a tragic story at your feet, asking if you even care that a 10/15/whatever year old should die just so you can have an unlocked gun in your house.  There's really nothing you can reply to that sort of analogy other then to offer another back: should my family be at risk of home invasion or mugging on the streets to protect a school from a shooter who will probably find a gun no matter what law is in place...  Who's life is more important?  The your kids and their teachers at a school or your kids and yourself and wife/husband right there at home? 

Again, there's no easy way to answer such questions, and there's many points of view on it.  That's one of the reasons this is such a hot topic

That's very true.  It is their job to regulate such things based on the needs and desires of the populace/their constituents.

It's just my fear that people like I described, who have to deal with real danger alone on the border, or in really bad neighborhoods, and even the few in decent places to live who just want that safety net if the worst should happen, are getting forgotten and ignored because an ever increasing percent of the population fears guns for one, and second have bought the government's line that they will protect us *and do most every thing else for us*, when it's usually not the case for the initial victims.

I just have a serious issue with the spoon-fed, government will care for you *while they let things like corruption at the highest levels go unnoticed, financial instability, and in general screw everything up*  mentality that seems to be growing, and a taking away of the self reliance part of American life that originally made us great.

That is certainly led into many of the big problems this country faces right now. Even the more educated individuals I've come across in my travels, still are ignorant as regards to how much BLIND FAITH they are putting into the governments. They just accept that the government does something, passes a law, takes an action whatever it may be for the "good of the people". It is an ugly reality that we actually find ourselves in where these "elected" politicians are there not like the party line goes, to "serve the people" or to be "the voice of the little man" but rather to make laws that give them, and the people that actually pay the politicians more money, power and control. It is not about "average" citizens at all. Its about MONEY and POWER. And those are two things that are married hand and hand. Those with money have power and will do everything to keep it that way.

Guns are big business. As long as guns are not fully perceived as a full threat to power they will have some place in society.

Anything can be used as a weapon if the mind wishes to see everything as a weapon.

Exactly how does a gun, of any type protect a house hold if rules and regulations are ever present and it is locked up in a box, case etc? Yes it keeps children from using them, but does it make it effective to defend you and your loved ones during a home invasion?  You're casually watching TV with your wife/husband and two children. Two thieves kick in the door holding intending to make off with your property and harming your family. If you have a gun, but it is locked in a box under your bed, upstairs from where you are how does that effectively as a threat to those intending crime? What makes logical sense to me was the days where the family rifle was placed in arms reach above the fireplace, which is where everyone congregated anyway. It was there if someone was to storm in and take you by surprise. And it served as a warning, "this is what awaits if you dare enter with ill intent."

they will most likely be over $1,000 from what I've seen.

Actually, you can get an AK for around $250 in the US.

I'm gonna have to ride shotgun with Ralin here, I agree with ALMOST *not all* of what he's said. First off, Heavy Automatic Firearms (such as the SAW) are expensive, and I mean EXPENSIVE, same goes with large bore weapons such as the Barrett .50BMG Rifles/other or .50AE Desert Eagle/equivalent handguns.

Summary - High Caliber Weapons -

1. They are large and almost unwielding -

2. Small ammunition capacity

3. Expensive

4. Have to have special permits to own in most areas

EXAMPLE -

Barrett Model 99 .50BMG bolt action, weighs 23 lbs, no magazine (means one shot then you have to manually reload) costs over $4,000 U.S dollars with taxes. The ammunition it requires is the 12.7x99mm NATO cartridge, (For you poeple who don't know what I'm talking about, it's known as the .50cal bullet that everyone is sooooo afraid of) commercially available, it costs between $1.75 and $2.25 EACH.

Apparently all of you have/know how to purchase a firearm (har har), I'm just going to go over it again for ya just in case. ALL 50 STATES before you buy a gun of ANY kind, the gun shop, store, Wal-Mart or wherever, run a Federal background check on you. If you have any criminal record whatsoever, you will be turned down and will not be allowed to purchase the firearm. ALSO the weapon must be registered at some point or the other.

Seems like a pain in the ass huh?

Revised.

I was thinking about Light Machine guns, it was a typing error and lack of paying attention on my behalf, that's what was on my mind, sorry.

But the AK thing, that's mainly in third world countries, you can't get an automatic AK or anything in that power range legally without permits, and even if you do they will most likely be over $1,000 from what I've seen.

IG-88 wrote:

Not neccecerally  Ak-47's are cheap as p***. You may not have a criminal record... Yet.

Lord Revan wrote:

Summary - High Caliber Weapons -

*COUGHPAYCLOSERATTENTIONCOUGH*

You said "automatic firearms are expensive". Dont talk like that to me man i'm not interested in childishness.

"I'd rather have a gun and not need it, then need it and not have one."

I actually think that's a much older quote then from the movie *don't remember it being used there, will have to rewatch* but I feel it's very true.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say machine guns are 'useless to civilians.'  It's a gun.  It has the same power to take and protect life as any other gun.  So it could be just as useFULL in protecting a person's life. 

Now, I understand that your average citizen isn't very likely to need the firepower provided by a machine gun.  It's a valid point.  My only problem with taking the option away is that it sets a precedent of the government, and majority rule in general, gaining the power to tell the rest of the country what they 'need.'  It's been guns for a while.  It's SUVs and other types of cars in some places.  What next?

It's all part of the slippery slope dilemma that you face when government steps into these situations.